[Riala]

Hiya Matty, where abouts in Lincoln?

I just got one in Boultham Park Allotments!

[green_fingered_ash]

cardboard mulch an option? its free, cut all the weed growth cover with several layers of cardboard, bit by bit dig up all the roots and plant veg or a green manure, until ready? when i get my allotment, this is what im going to do when i get my allotment, its going to be hard work but i want to be 100% organic , from the moment i plant my seeds till the moment i eat the fruit/veg. all this pesticides and the such i dont like.

[Brassica Blaz]

Hi matty,i would go for the initial weed kill with glyphosate any day.my lotty was like the amazon rainforest last year when i aquired it.i scudded it off then weedkillered it.it dosen't affect the soil only the weed ,all my stuff is growing lovely this season.but now i hoe out the weeds now i'm top side of them.

[Riala]

He is going completely organic (as said in the title) so I think that means no chemicals at all.

[littlegran10]

i have a book about using saly in various ways which suggests you boil 1 quart of water, add 2 tablespoons salt and 5 tablespoons vinegar.  Whilst still hot pour mix directly onto weeds.  It is aimed at cracks in pathways etc and I haven't tried it so can't vouch for it also it may not be practical on an allotment.  But, if you can use it , it is organic and maybe worth a try.

[Brassica Blaz]

hi Riala, he did ask if anyone has used weed killer in a further post if you look ,just answering his question.

[oldbean]

it dosen't affect the soil only the weed ,

Sorry but though I was going to keep out of this discussion, I feel your statement needs a response. If you look through this you will find

Field dose exposure of earth-
worms caused at least 50 percent mortality and significant intestinal
damage among surviving worms [91]. Arecent paper reported that
Roundup caused cell division dysfunction that may be linked to human
cancers [92].

References:
91. Morowati M.  Histochemiccal and histopathological study of the
intestine of the earthworm exposed to a field dose of the herbicide
glyphosate. The Environmentalist 2000, 20, 105-11.
92.Mark EJ, Lorrilon O, Boulben S, Hureau D, Durrand G and Belle  R.
Pesticide roundup provokes cell cycle dysfunction at the level of
CDK1/Cyclin B activation. Chem. Res. Toxicol. 2002, 15, 326-31.

It at least raises the question as to how far the effects go beyond what is generally expected.

[celjaci]

I'm with Oldbean on this - it is a myth that glyphosate does not affect anything else and that it breaks down to harmless by-products in the soil.
Glyphosate has been banned in some countries and will be withdrawn from use in others

As mentioned by others, heavy duty membranes will not only supress weeds but kill them if left down long enough. I have cleared large areas of pernicious weeds by this method, including ground elder, creeping thistle and creeping buttercup

[Kristen]

He is going completely organic (as said in the title) so I think that means no chemicals at all.

His original post said "I really didnt want to have to resort to weed killer, but im starting to think its the only option now!"

[Kristen]

Glyphosate has been banned in some countries and will be withdrawn from use in others

Can you provide citations for that please, I'd be interested to read them.

[Kristen]

Sorry but though I was going to keep out of this discussion, ...

oldbean I appreciate that yours is pretty much a loan voice, and that the last interchange I saw caused the OP to feel harassed by you, which I very much doubt was your intention. I salute your restrained response here.

I think you have a valuable viewpoint.  It isn't my personal viewpoint, but is has caused me to question my viewpoint and research further.

You may need to pick your words carefully to avoid an almighty conflagration!! but please don't hide from the public forum.

[oldbean]

Thanks for that.

I have found one reference for now, in http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2004/01/12/roundup_ready_grass_ge.htm

Glyphosate ban as water contaminated (16/9/2003)

Glyphosate, Monsanto's "Roundup" herbicide - for which its GM crops are designed to be resistant - has been banned in Denmark because it is contaminating water supplies. ---

THIRD WORLD NETWORK BIOSAFETY INFORMATION SERVICE
16 September 2003
Dear Friends and colleagues,
RE: DANISH WATER CONTAMINATED BY ROUNDUP, BAN IMPOSED

Denmark has imposed a ban on the spraying of glyphosates as of 15 September 2003 following the release of data which found that glyphosate, the active ingredient in Monsanto's Roundup herbicide (RR) has been contaminating the drinking water resources of the country. The chemical has, against all expectations sieving down through the soil and polluting the ground water at a rate of five times more than the allowed level for drinking water, according to tests done by the Denmark and Greenland Geological Research Institution (DGGRI) as reported below.

"When we spray glyphosate on the fields by the rules it has been shown that it is washed down into the upper ground water with a concentration of 0.54 micrograms per litre. This is very surprising, because we had previously believed that bacteria in the soil broke down the glyphosate before it reached the ground water," says DGGRI. We hope you will find the information provided useful.

With best wishes,

Lim Li Lin and Chee Yoke Heong

Third World Network
121-S Jalan Utama
10450 Penang, Malaysia
Email: twnet@po.jaring.my
Website: www.twnside.org.sg