[AlaninCarlisle]

I want to bring into productive cultivation a small area of old pasture alongside my polytunnel, about 10 metres x 10 metres is all I want to start with. It's part of an old pasture that we own.

The land, as far as I can tell has been pasture for at least 200 years. The soil is quite shallow (about a spade depth), is very heavy clayey type stuff and is in top of gravel. There are no field drains at all and it gets waterlogged every few winters.  It is totally exposed with no shade other than from the polytunnel which is to the west of the area

My plan is to cover the whole area with membrane until early spring and then spray with glyphosate, leave for a few weeks and then turn it over, add copious amounts of rotted muck ready for planting and probably fence off with wire-mesh buried to a depth of 6" to protect from rabbits

Several questions: Is one spade-depth of clayey soil on top of gravel sufficient or should I be adding soil from elsewhere?

Should I be adding lime as a matter of course?

Adding field drains is more work than I wish at this stage. Is this likely to be an issue if the soil is opened up to the drying elements and maybe some gritty sand worked into it? Certainly within the polytunnel itself the top six inches of soil are dry although outside is like a marsh

[sunshineband]

On most of my plot I started with only a single spit of thick clay with stones, over solidified gravel.

Two years later the growing areas are almost decent soil --- took out stones, broke up the gravel pan underneath to improve drainage and added as much compost, old grow bags etc as I have been able to lay my hands on.

So......... it can be done and will be worth it.

Just really try to break up that pan under the top soil a sit will help no end 

[Kleftiwallah]

In the introductory programme of "The Victorian Kitchen Garden"  The presenter ? went out into the near pasture and dug a hole showing there was only half a spit of soil above the subsoil.  He then went into the garden and dug a hole, there was about two and a half spits of good topsoil.

So.  .  .  .get that manure down, regularly for the next three hundred years.     Cheers,    Tony.

[sunshineband]

In the introductory programme of "The Victorian Kitchen Garden"  The presenter ? went out into the near pasture and dug a hole showing there was only half a spit of soil above the subsoil.  He then went into the garden and dug a whole, there was about two and a half spits of good topsoil.

So.  .  .  .get that manure down, regularly for the next three hundred years.     Cheers,    Tony.

I'm not that old 

[shokkyy]

I didn't think you were allowed to turn pasture over to garden or agricultural use without planning permission.

[AlaninCarlisle]

I didn't think you were allowed to turn pasture over to garden or agricultural use without planning permission.

The day I ask for Planning Permission to work my own land is the day I start to eat hay with the horses

[sunshineband]

I should have had planning permission for our pond, veg garden etc at school, but I didn't, because I no idea this was the requirement.

Luckily no-one minded really.

I guess Alan will be in the same position... no-one will mind

[Yorkie]

I didn't think you were allowed to turn pasture over to garden or agricultural use without planning permission.

You are right and there have been cases where enforcement has occurred - with huge costs associated if you lose the prosecution.

[solway cropper]

The day I ask for Planning Permission to work my own land is the day I start to eat hay with the horses

spoken like a true Cumbrian, Alan.

[bazh]

Alan no point in covering it with a membrane you'll want it healthy and growing in order to spray it with glyphosate, just mow it a couple of weeks before you want spray it to stimulate some growth, if you covered it will be weak and damp when you uncover it and you'll have to wait for to dry and put on some healthy growth in order to get the best results from the glyphosate.

[joyfull]

we had a friend who converted part of his own field into a rose garden along side of his normal garden and got made to remove the roses and put it back to an agricultural field, he had no neighbours but a jealous local who reported it. So please take heed of the law and ask for permission, nobody is above the law.

[AlaninCarlisle]

Alan no point in covering it with a membrane you'll want it healthy and growing in order to spray it with glyphosate, just mow it a couple of weeks before you want spray it to stimulate some growth, if you covered it will be weak and damp when you uncover it and you'll have to wait for to dry and put on some healthy growth in order to get the best results from the glyphosate.

Good point. Thanks, I will

[AlaninCarlisle]

we had a friend who converted part of his own field into a rose garden along side of his normal garden and got made to remove the roses and put it back to an agricultural field, he had no neighbours but a jealous local who reported it. So please take heed of the law and ask for permission, nobody is above the law.

Growing veg is an agricultural use. Growing roses isn't.

[Aunt Sally]

You do not need any planning permission to turn agricultural land into allotments.


http://www.nsalg.org.uk/uploads/article547/Allotments%20-%20The%20Basics.pdf


You do need permission to turn agricultural land into a garden.  I'm not sure of the legal difference between an allotment and a garden.

[Yorkie]

All land has a use.  

Agriculture - which includes growing stuff as described by Aunt Sally in the NSALG link.

Garden - which is domestic.

I assume that you have satisfied yourself that the Agricultural Land Classification categorises your land as agricultural and therefore permits the use of the land for allotments.