[Chiswickian]

I grew some alfalfa given to me at Chelsea last year by a donkey charity. I dug it in today - the first day of the year that the London clay was manageable - and it was really quite a tough job! Is it supposed to be? The roots were quite deep and , being in a raised bed, it seemed counterintuitive to be growing something that needed such heavy digging in a supposedly no- dig bed!

[DavidT]

Personally, I don`t see the need for " green manures ". If you are managing your beds properly you shouldn`t need it.

[gardener247]

you shouldnt need to dig deep kist enough to damage them enough that they will die. tho deep roots are a good sign that they are bringing good stuff from way down below

[DavidT]

The idea of green manures is to dig them in while they are still young to manure the soil.

[kingdhesiii]

never use them tbh. They take plot space up and I dont have enough of that.
Just use horse manure.

[Chiswickian]

I only grew it as the bed was going to be empty for the winter and there's a school of thought that it's better planted than left bare. It was tough going today and I suspect I'll have to do a bit more digging yet.

[DD.]

Nothing wrong with fallow spaces.

Soil needs a rest as my grandfather would have said.

[Trillium]

While alfalfa is a great green manure, you really do need a tractor and plough to turn it under as the roots can hit 6 ft deep. Green manures are excellent even for raised beds but I'd recommend something more manageable like white clover, buckwheat or oats. Plant the buckwheat or oats asap after harvest so they have a bit of time to grow before they're killed by winter frosts. By spring you're set to plant. White clover takes a bit of time to take root, isn't invasive so you could even grow it in rows between some crops, then rotovate it in the following year. Winter rye adds loads of tilth but again, is a tough one to knock down with a rotovator let alone a spade.

[Elaine G]

never use them tbh. They take plot space up and I dont have enough of that.
Just use horse manure.

There is a notice up at our allotments offering to deliver manure for the very unreasonable price of £60.
my packet of mustard was less than 3 quid. I think I'll give it a go.

Elaine

[DD.]

Whilst I agree that £60 is a little high for horse manure, ( not so incredibly so), £3 on green manure will in no way be it's equal.

[Trillium]

It rather depends on what your soil needs though, DD. I deal with a local organic market gardener who also sells heirloom seeds she raises and they don't use a speck of manure on their property. It's all down to a variety of green manures, greensand (not sure if this is available in the UK) and kelp meal. She's got soil I'd happily trade my first born for.

[Zippy]

DD - not wishing to content with you, but why does soil need to "rest"?

Surely nature doesnt rest soil - any soil that is barren soon fills with pioneer weeds and then perrenials, tree seedlings and so on until you have woodland.

I think if I was going to rest a plot of land I would sow a green manure which will hold nutrients in the soil, put down deep roots to bring up nutrients from the subsoil and stop other plants like willowherbs and dandelions from taking hold of the bare ground.

In my opinion soil doesnt wear out if you practice good husbandry including composting and rotation so there's no need to rest it.

[Trillium]

Composting and rotation are necessary for soil health but if you study rotations from centuries past, you'll find everyone left one field 'fallow' (unused) for a whole year to recover from the demands made on it from cropping. It also allows diseases and pests to die off since there's no host plant, and weeds and such can establish and help feed the soil (which is one use they're good for). Leaves and such can accumulate and breakdown on spot as well. Farms these days are pressed to pay for themselves and can't afford to leave even one field fallow. While this isn't mandatory, it does a lot for the soil if you can find the space.

Around my area, all the Amish and Mennonite farms leave fallow fields every year, and their home gardens are shifted every year so that the current year's garden will be left fallow but with green manure and all the cropping is done in another area for the next year's garden. They truly respect the land, something a lot of us have forgotten to do. The standard farmers and home gardeners eventually all complain about soil depletion and heavy disease and pest infestations despite rotation and manuring.

[strangerachael]

I use a lot of green manure on my plot, it is quite sandy soil and one reason I use it is to help prevent nutrients leaching away over the winter. It is easy to dig in if you choose the right kind. I use a lot of crimson clover and tares in the area where I will be growing brassicas the following year. I sow it as soon as I have emptied a patch that will not be required until the following season. This year I plan to undersow my purple sprouting brocolli and brussels sprouts with clover in the hope that it will share it's nitrogen with them.

[Pompey Spud]

This year i will be mostly using....
sorry..that was for all the Fast Show lovers.

Anyway...as members know..i use green manure loads..grazing rye and mustard.

This season i'm going to grow clover round tall crops and between other stuff like squash.

A farm does this somewhere in Surrey i think, I read recently in a old issue of KG and soil fertility has shot up by using just green manures. They inter sow clover between stuff.