[binner]

evening all, been a long time since i posted on here but as you will soon see, iv not been doing much this year.

right then, with other interests, work and 2 young kids i just dont have the time to put in on my plot and its getting way out of control. last winter when i should have been digging it over we at last got a council house but it was a right state, that meant i decided to cut back for a year and just dug a couple of beds over.
then we had all the bad weather in spring and i lost most of my crops, i decied to leave it then as i had loads to do at home, built a drive and fenced all the back garden off. i only got down once or twice a month and ended up just cutting the grass and weeds down each time.
now my plot has been lost to the inevitable jungle of weeds and grass and i dont know where to start

so my plan for the next couple or 3 years is to stick to a small part that i can keep on top of, but.................... what to do with the rest? the council stipulate that one third must be cultivated so thats not a problem.
im thinking about spraying it all off and possibly planting some kind of wildlife/wildflower area, at least this should keep the worst of the weeds down and i wont have to worry too much about it. am i right or wrong? its pretty bad clay soil and the area shown has never been touched with a spade. on the plus side the bits i have done over the last 3 years are now full of nice, if a little heavy soil



the plan above is just about to scale, the beds in brown are around 4 or 5 feet wide and 15 feet long, these are what i want to concentrate on this year and i should be able to manage those 4 easily, once i get rid of the weeds the one to the left in orange is half comfry and half empty, plan is to fill it all with comfry.
now i dont yet have any chickens(before anyone realises i said i only went down once or twice a month) but i do have a nice home made hut and a load of mesh sheets ready to be used, we also rent a paddock on the same site and are looking at getting a pony for our youngest early next year so i will be down every day then anyway. we sold the horse when the little one came along.
so the big dark green bit to the right what to do???

thanks binner

[sunshineband]

Sounds like you have had a busy time. Good that you have kept the weeds down on your plot though 

Have you thought that you could gradually extend your beds as you get things more under control? If so do not do anything that would prevent this being straightforward.

You could add one or two each season to give you more growing area.

In our first year we planted up about a third of our plot and then grew potatoes in all the rest. As we harvested the potatoes, we created more beds, with paths in between them. Paths are weedsuppressant material with bark chip over. An overall plan for where the beds were going made this easy

[Yorkie]

If the weeds are perennial ones, they will come back next year even if you do plant a wild meadow / flower area.   Also bear in mind that a wildflower area might inadvertently contain plants which would be fine in isolation but cause problems to neighbouring plots as they would be weeds there.

You are getting a little late to use weedkiller but you could give it a try - just don't expect it to work quickly as the plants are slowing down.

I'd look to use weed suppressant over most of the area and gradually bring it into cultivation as suggested.

Or, if you don't think you're likely ever to make productive use of it, perhaps consider giving half up so someone else can garden it if there is a waiting list?

[binner]

i will bring some more into use over the next couple of years or so but tbh i recon one bed for each plant group would be plenty for us, plus one used just for tatties but still rotated, so that gives me 6
roots
brassicas
onions and such
tatties
and two permanent for comfrey and some fruits

3 of the 4 will be easy to reclaim over the next few weeks, the end one may take some doing as i never did anything with it last winter.

perhaps i could add a square one at the bottom of where the chickens will go for fruits.

just another thought, any ground that i have not broken(it was a new plot when i took it on) is rock solid, weed roots are near on impossible to get out as the docks go down forever in the clay and the nettles are like a sheet of mesh just below surface, bindweed is a problem on my plot too along with ground elder.

it could be a good while before i can make use of the land to the right of the chucks, and its very hard just to stick a spade in!

i can get as many cardboard boxes as i want from work so what if i covered it all over in layers of card and manure(constant supply on site ) and just kept adding too it for a couple of years or two?
will this keep the weeds down or will they just come through it? also i guess it will softed the surface layers as the worms work it all in??

p.s. a share is out of the question, our council will not allow anything like that. there are loads of half used plots on both ours and the another site and a huge waiting list

[ilan]

I would think a wild plant area out of the question they require very very poor soil or else the weeds will just out grow them. I would either rotavate it and sow a medow grass mix from the local farm suppliers and try to get two or three cuts of hay off it to stop it seeding onto other plots or perhaps wheat/ oats or lay it to lawn and keep it well cut and use the clippings for the compost use a good lawn seed dont just let it wild seed

[binner]

clearly the unbroken clay is not poor enough then as the weeds are flourishing on it.

the rotovator just bounces along on the top of it, so to seed it with anything would mean digging it over, which is what im trying to avoid for now. only other way i can see is to cut it back as low as possible and rake it off, then loosen the top couple of inch with the rotovator and seed.
but my worry then is im not acctualy surpressing the weeds and they will take over again unless i spray it off. but i have sprayed it 3 times this year and the weeds come back more numerous and stronger im not going to keep paying out for weed killer. iv used round up 3000 with the grey label, wilko's concentrate glyphostfate and tried sbk to try and just kill the weeds and leave the grass.

yes i have done it correctly, not when its about to rain and mixed it as suggested on the bottle

[bigben]

Can you hack a bed down to ground level then cover it with weed fabric. You can then put pots on it and grow in them. You keep the weeds covered until you can dig the roots out properly and might be able to claim you have using the area for cultivation by putting new spuds in pots - also good for weighing the weed fabric down.

Another ploy  could be to cover most of a bed with fabric, Leave a narrow strip (or two) and create a bean bed or two with canes coming up. Again, this will not solve the problem but might create a bit of breathing space.

Finally try setting up an area for soft fruit. This would invlove digging all the roots out but once you have you can plant rasberries, blackcurrents etc in stips with most of the area covered. This is easier to look after than a big open bed. You do need to sort the weeds first though.

[SG6]

Suggest a dig over and add anything to break the heavy soil a bit - looks good - then plant an assortment of fruit bushes. Space them well out to cover more space.

Raspberry's will likely spread over a few years and I suggest Autumn ones as they are easier to manage if you go for them.

[angelavdavis]

just another thought, any ground that i have not broken(it was a new plot when i took it on) is rock solid, weed roots are near on impossible to get out as the docks go down forever in the clay and the nettles are like a sheet of mesh just below surface, bindweed is a problem on my plot too along with ground elder.

it could be a good while before i can make use of the land to the right of the chucks, and its very hard just to stick a spade in!

i can get as many cardboard boxes as i want from work so what if i covered it all over in layers of card and manure(constant supply on site ) and just kept adding too it for a couple of years or two?
will this keep the weeds down or will they just come through it? also i guess it will softed the surface layers as the worms work it all in??

Hi Binner,

Your solid clay scenario is exactly what we have on our plot(s).  I used a method called lasagne gardening which is similar to your description (although you add more layers).  This should make this bed usable by springtime.  Just start by pushing a fork into the ground and wiggling it to open up the structure slightly to stop it becoming a solid pan of clay with poor drainage under the layers.  

If you look at my diary on this site (see link in my signature below), you will see the results.  I also recommend losing any grass paths - you will always be fighting back the weeds from these if you don't.  I invested £30 in a huge roll of weed suppressant online when I first took over the plot and it lasted me three years.  I used it on all my paths, under the shed and greenhouse and over the beds initially to weaken any weed growth (I planted my lasagne beds straight away).   You can top the fabric with free bark chips from a tree surgeon, etc if you wish, but this is personal choice.  I have all the weeds you do except ground elder (+ I have couch grass).   I pull up any that appear around the weed suppressing fabric but they are greatly weakened now.

I would also recommend you plant your fruit bushes and trees through weed suppressant too to cut down on weeds around these.  I have found this to be really effective at keeping weeds down.  You can spot where raspberry suckers are coming up and cut the fabric to reveal them.

More info on lasagne gardening can be found in this link or by searching online.  There are plenty of videos on Youtube too.  

[binner]

that angelavdavis is a cracking idea

i now have a plan hack it all down to ground level, cover with paper and card, layer of peat (why peat by the way?) paper, manure (i have a never ending supply) then maybe top it off with a layer of multi compost and perhaps sow a weed surpressing green manure into it. leave well alone for now and hope it holds the weeds back then get digging next year or year after

re the paths. i know just what you mean about the grass/weeds encroaching, a couple of my beds are edged with old timber boards but the others tend to shrink every time i look at them

[viettaclark]

If you're getting chickens I'm surprised no-one has suggested letting them onto a larger area to freerange (making sure they are well protected from foxes!!)
Give it a few months and you'll have bare bug/slug free soil with added chicken poo which you can dig and manure. You can move them around to do the whole area eventually.
Let the chickens do the work!

[binner]

now there is an idea, fairly solid fence around two sides of it. wouldn't take much to make it secure for daytime while people are around atleast anyway.

[angelavdavis]

layer of peat (why peat by the way?)

It doesn't have to be peat - I always use HM or purchased compost.  I guess peat is the suggestion purely to retain moisture - but manure will do this just fine, just ensure you wet the layers thoroughly as you build them up.

Some weeds will battle through, but you will find they are weaker than they would be fully exposed over winter.

[binner]

ah right then.

off down this week to attack it with the strimmer and start barrowing muck in

[binner]

well, i went down yesterday and attacked it with the strimmer. i even found some parsnips

so off down tomorrow to start and build the edge boards around the beds and start piling the manure in