[peggyprice]

... to find the answer!

Story so far (bear with me, I'll try to keep it if not short then at least to the point   ):

Got Dorothy the Warren about 6 weeks ago from a local city farm, along with 3 others, mixed breeds.

On the first day she was here I noticed her eating an egg in the run; the next few days she laid regularly, very very thin shelled eggs with a strange band round the 'waist', but within about ten days I started finding the remains of the shell in the nest box and the contents either completely or partly eaten.  She's never to my knowledge eaten any of the other hens' eggs, only ever her own.  Until recently she's been laying as regular as clockwork - and every day she ate her own egg, always leaving behind this incredibly fragile shell.

Thanks to Aunty she and the others have been getting a supplement of limestone flour for the past four or five weeks, plus cod liver oil from time to time to help calcium absorption.  Otherwise she has a healthy diet of organic layers pellets, plenty of grit & oyster shell always available, a little bit of mixed corn and whatever she finds when she freeranges (which is part of most days).

Dorothy's always been the scrawniest of the lot - she bore a resemblance to a slightly better than usual ex-batt when we first got her, although she'd always (as far as I know) freeranged - but had noticeably improved her feathering after arriving here.

We have noticed this week though that she seems to have a lot of bald patches underneath the upper feathers, and particularly on her front, below the breastbone - no sign of going broody, though, before anyone asks   .

She's been wearing a pair of Bodger's spectacles for a couple of weeks in the hope of stopping the egg eating - for the first eight days she just didn't lay at all ( :roll: ) but has started again in the last couple of days.  Again, really thin shells and just the remains left; the specs don't seem to have stopped her eating the eggs.

Now:  today she's laid again, and for once the egg hasn't been eaten, so I've been able to get pics.  You can see the really thin band round the waist of the egg, and you can also see how cleanly the two halves separated (just by hand).  Everything inside perfectly normal; shell incredibly thin like paper still.




I am almost certain that if we could get her eggs stronger so that they didn't (presumably) break on laying that she wouldn't bother to eat them - I suspect that she's not actually attacking them, just going for an easy option when it's offered to her.

But why are they coming out like this, and why after all these weeks of a healthy regime have they not improved?

Sorry to be long winded, but have tried to include all possible relevant information - I really want to solve this problem 'cause she's a nice little hen and I don't like unsolved mysteries  :?   Specially when they might lead to an otherwise untroublesome bird being for the (shhhh) ch*p  :shock:

Any suggestions, anyone?

[too many girls]

absolutely no idea, does look like the shell hasn't formed properly before being laid, but why this should happen would be interesting to find out, there seems to be a lot of people here who know what their talking about, i'm sure it won't be long before someone comes up with an answer. good luck

[poultrygeist]

I think they can have genetic defects and never actually manage a normal egg.
But we have had a few slightly deformed or thin eggs after mishaps and shocks but nothing prolonged. Could just be a defect in her oviduct.

Aunt sally suggested to someone about rollaway nest boxes. You can get the inserts pretty cheap from Solway and others. As they're laid, they roll to the back where you can put a barrier to protect them. At least you get to eat them instead of her and she can lose the specs.

Rob  

[peggyprice]

I think they can have genetic defects and never actually manage a normal egg.
But we have had a few slightly deformed or thin eggs after mishaps and shocks but nothing prolonged. Could just be a defect in her oviduct.

Aunt sally suggested to someone about rollaway nest boxes. You can get the inserts pretty cheap from Solway and others. As they're laid, they roll to the back where you can put a barrier to protect them. At least you get to eat them instead of her and she can lose the specs.

Rob  

I was going to order the rollaway inserts today (it was me Aunty suggested them to    :oops:   ) - but if the problem's with the egg as it's laid rather than the behaviour afterwards, I could just end up with a very messy rollaway ... :?

And if it's to do with her general health I'd like to know what the problem is   just so I can do something about it for her ...

[mumsy]

The problem Rob, is that they break as soon as been laid., so wouldn't roll away, My Daisy laid soft shelled eggs & as I have said in many posts, I tried everything, nothing worked, then they all started eating them.  That was the time the decision had to be made & I found her a good home.  Old chickens are prone to this aswell.  
It is true that they may never lay a normal egg, Daisy only laid 8 normal eggs in the last month I had her, 15 were soft.

[peggyprice]

I tried everything, nothing worked, then they all started eating them.  

That's what I've been afraid of, specially with the two young 'uns not having started laying yet ..

Is the paper thin shell classed as 'soft' Mumsy?  (I don't quite know what else I'd thought soft shells were - sort of the thin white bit without the hard outer bit, I suppose - if that makes any sort of sense at all  :oops: )

[poultrygeist]

The physiology is not too dissimilar to mamalian reproductive system and, as we know, any number of things can go wrong. I guess we just expect them to do what they're supposed to and it's a puzzle when they don't.

The rollaways may at least remove the eatign problem if you can cushion the fall enough. We have had a couple of really soft ones and have found remains of eaten ones so I know how difficult it is to solve.

I hope it does clear up for your and her sake. But I doubt she even knows there's a problem. She just gets a free breakfast !  

[mumsy]

Is the paper thin shell classed as 'soft' Mumsy?  

Yes, they are soft shelled eggs............. :?
Babe had one that did the same, but she doesn't eat eggs so it didn't matter to her, her chooks are just pets, unfortunatley Mr fox sorted the problem for her.

[peggyprice]

Is the paper thin shell classed as 'soft' Mumsy?  

Yes, they are soft shelled eggs............. :?
Babe had one that did the same, but she doesn't eat eggs so it didn't matter to her, her chooks are just pets, unfortunatley Mr fox sorted the problem for her.

Would Babe like to give Dorothy a good home ?  (only joking ... and only 'cos I know she's safely out of the country   )

If that's the problem we're not likely to be able to solve it; but without being sentimental about it I don't particularly like the idea of bringing an otherwise healthy bird to a sticky end just for what is, in the end, an inconvenience for me not (as Rob so rightly points out!) for her  

[Aunt Sally]

If you've been giving her lots of extra calcium over a few weeks then I believe shemay have had an infection at some time which has damaged her shell gland

I'll have a look round for some info.

[Aunt Sally]

form here:

Diseases: Diseases like infectious bronchitis (IB), Newcastle disease (ND), avian influenza (AI) and egg drop syndrome (EDS) affect the shell quality. IB virus causes soft/rough shelled eggs, discolouration and wrinkling of the shell. EDS virus affects only the shell gland but with ND or IB, every portion of the reproductive tract can be affected.

and from here:

Most “ridged,” “sunburst,” “slab-sided,” soft-shelled, or double-shelled eggs are the result of eggs colliding in the shell gland when an ovum (yolk) is released too soon after the previous one. Necropsy examinations have demonstrated that 2 full-sized eggs can be found in the shell gland pouch. As the second egg comes in contact with the first, pressure is exerted, disrupting the pattern of mineralization. The first egg acquires a white band and chalky appearance, while the second egg is flattened on its contiguous surface (ie, slab-sided). Pimpled or rough eggs may have been retained too long in the shell gland. Blood spots result when a follicle vessel along the stigma ruptures as the ovum is being released. Meat spots occur when a piece of follicle membrane or residual albumen from the previous day is incorporated into the developing egg.
Many abnormalities occur as “accidents” (no specific cause), but the incidence is much higher in hens subjected to stressful management conditions, rough handling, or vaccination during production. A significant increase in the number of soft-shelled eggs is also common as a result of viral disease such as infectious bronchitis, egg drop syndrome, and exotic Newcastle disease.
Small eggs with no yolk form around a nidus of material (residual albumen) in the magnum of the oviduct. Small eggs with reduced albumen and eggs with defective shells may be the result of damage to the epithelium of the magnum or shell gland.  
Very rarely, foreign material that enters the oviduct through the vagina (eg, a roundworm) may be incorporated into an egg.  

[Foxy]

was thinking might be infectious bronchitis which can disrupt the reproductive organs of a hen....

[Aunt Sally]

That's my feeling too foxy  

[peggyprice]

If you've been giving her lots of extra calcium over a few weeks then I believe shemay have had an infection at some time which has damaged her shell gland

I'll have a look round for some info.

Thanks for the research Aunty, much appreciated.  Certainly looks like a strong possibility, doesn't it?

Unfortunately no clues as to whether it's curable  - presumably for most commercial keepers, where most of the research is done, it's just a case of dispatch and get on ..

So, unless anyone knows of a miracle cure, the options seem to be:

- the obvious one, which I'm not comfortable with except as very last resort
- a good home somewhere else with someone who doesn't eat eggs ( :roll: not sure how easy they'll be to find within striking distance  :?  )
- some sort of 'retirement' arrangement that keeps her here but separates her from the others when she lays ... though I'm not convinced I can find a way to do that without loads of hassle which will make us all (including her) fed up  

Answers on a postcard please ....

[Aunt Sally]

There may not be a cure Peggy  

If the other hens are laying ok then their calcium level is good.

If you use a roll away nest box the at least their eggs will be safe !