Honey Bees

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Hazel Anne

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Honey Bees
« on: April 22, 2008, 13:14 »
Did anyone listen to radio 2 yesterday afternoon about the Honey bees dying?
Apparently 80% have died in Canada from a mistery problem and its spreading across Europe.
They say Honey bees could be extinct in 10 years time!!!!!!
Just imagine the effect on the envioment and life without Honey
There needs to be some investigating before it goes too far.

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poultrygeist

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Honey Bees
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 13:27 »
Saw the feature on BBC Breakfast this morning. It's certainly a bit scary. You take things like bees for granted.

I'm sure there'll be an answer to it soon. If not from artificial means, then evolution will come up with something. They've survived this far, maybe there's a hive somewhere with a superbee waiting to take it on.  :D

Rob

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Ruby Red

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Honey Bees
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 17:18 »
Some British beekeepers have lost up to 50 per cent of their hives. The

disease is already here and when the government were approached for

help to look into it the keepers were told that 200,000 pounds is spent

annually and there isnt anymore money. They need to wake up. Without

bees there wont be much countryside or food produce. More important to

 grow lots of bee friendly flowers to help the ones that are there. Dont kill

them whatever you do. They wont hurt you if left alone.
Oh for those halcyon days of England long ago

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Trillium

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Honey Bees
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 19:20 »
The weather also plays a huge factor in bee life. A friend lost 2 of her 3 hives this past winter due to winter kill. We had a longer, colder winter than usual and the bees can't hold out quite that long. Bees don't fly if the sun isn't out (how they get directions) so with all the UK rain the last few years, they didn't bring in as much nectar and starved. One disease that's somewhat rampant is called foulbrood where some larvae things get into the hives and kill all the bees. I've seen the results and its truly gross. The increasing number of predators like mice and small weasels also take a heavy toll on bees. Same with chemical spray drift off farm fields and flower/veg gardens. Organics is a decided help to bees.

A superbee was developed, but it turned out so aggressive that it won't let you near the hives at all and can kill you with their sheer numbers attacking.

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Tinbasher

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Honey Bees
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 21:26 »
Quote from: "poultrygeist"
Saw the feature on BBC Breakfast this morning. It's certainly a bit scary. You take things like bees for granted.

I'm sure there'll be an answer to it soon. If not from artificial means, then evolution will come up with something. They've survived this far, maybe there's a hive somewhere with a superbee waiting to take it on.  :D

Rob


This has been a problem for some time now.  I read about it in some article at least a year ago.  I'll try to find it again and post it.  Some states of the USA have lost 80% of beekeepers' stocks, many more states 40 or 50%.  It was next reported in Germany and I think Austria, definitely last year, and was only a matter of time before the UK was hit by the problem.  Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) is the name generally given and doesn't result in dead bees in the hives - rather no bees in the hives and nobody seems to know where they have gone or why they aren't returning.  Rather than a disease or predators it seems the radar of the bees is being interfered with, a serious problem for them.  Whilst weather changes may be a suspect, GM crops have also been mentioned, as has also the mass radiation now covering almost every part of the world in the shape of mobile phone signals!  Let's face it, no-one yet has definitively proved that mobile phones or GM crops are utterly safe - and that's for humans.  As regards wildlife and especially insects there isn't the time or resources, apart from finance, to undertake the research needed to prove there is no effect to all creatures on the planet.  The fact is that if either of these two reasons prove to be a cause (and then there is weather and pollution thrown in) then it's too late.  This could be a bigger disaster than anything yet imagined and would be ironic and just the sort of thing that nature throws up and man overlooks - tiny insects that are vital to everything else and nobody ever thought of that !!

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poultrygeist

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Honey Bees
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 22:17 »
Quote from: "Tinbasher"
 This could be a bigger disaster than anything yet imagined and would be ironic and just the sort of thing that nature throws up and man overlooks - tiny insects that are vital to everything else and nobody ever thought of that !!


Or conveniently ignored because the people in question might not make lots of money.

Rob

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Tinbasher

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Honey Bees
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 22:35 »
Quote from: "Tinbasher"
Quote from: "poultrygeist"
Saw the feature on BBC Breakfast this morning. It's certainly a bit scary. You take things like bees for granted.

I'm sure there'll be an answer to it soon. If not from artificial means, then evolution will come up with something. They've survived this far, maybe there's a hive somewhere with a superbee waiting to take it on.  :D

Rob


This has been a problem for some time now.  I read about it in some article at least a year ago.  I'll try to find it again and post it.


So here it is:

PROOF Bees ARE Dying From GM?

'We are playing about with genetic structures that existed for millions of years, and the experiment is running out of control.'

Research by a leading German zoologist has shown that genes used to genetically modify crops can jump the species barrier, newspapers reported on Sunday.  A 3-year study by Professor Hans-Heinrich Kaatz at the University of Jena found that the gene used to modify oil-seed rape had transferred to bacteria living inside honey bees.  The findings undermine claims by the biotech industry that genes cannot spread.

 
They will also increase pressure on farmers across Europe to destroy fields of oil-seed rape contaminated with GM seeds.  In an interview for The Observer newspaper, Kaatz said: "I have found the herbicide-resistant genes in the rapeseed transferred across to the bacteria and yeast inside the intestines of young bees.  This happened rarely, but it did happen."  

 
The Observer said Kaatz was reluctant to talk about his work until it is officially published and reviewed by fellow scientists.  The reports come a day after Britain's Agriculture Minister Nick Brown urged farmers to destroy crops contaminated with genetically modified seeds.  Up to 600 farmers in Britain are believed to have inadvertently planted more than 30,000 acres of oilseed rape contaminated with GM rape seeds, supplied by Anglo-Dutch seed company Advanta.  Similar crops have been planted elsewhere in Europe, including in France, Germany and Sweden.  The French and Swedish governments have already announced they are ordering the uprooting of the crops.

 
The research is highly significant because it suggests that all types of bacteria could become contaminated by genes used in genetically modified technology, including those that live inside the human digestive system.  If this happened, it could have an impact on the bacteria's vital role in helping the human body fight disease, aid digestion and facilitate blood clotting.

 
Agriculture Minister Nick Brown confirmed the potential significance of Kaatz's research.  He said: 'If this is true, then it would be very serious.'

 
The 47-year-old Kaatz's reluctance to talk about his research until it has been published in a scientific journal is because he fears a backlash from the scientific community similar to that faced by Dr Arpad Pustzai, who claimed that genetically modified potatoes damaged the stomach lining of rats and was sacked and discredited.

 
Dr Mae-Wan Ho, geneticist at Open University and a critic of GM technology, has no doubts about the dangers.  She said: 'These findings are very worrying and provide the first real evidence of what many have feared.  Everybody is keen to exploit GM technology, but nobody is looking at the risk of horizontal gene transfer.

 
'We are playing about with genetic structures that existed for millions of years and the experiment is running out of control.'  One of the biggest concerns is if the anti-biotic resistant gene used in some GM crops crossed over to bacteria.  'If this happened it would leave us unable to treat major illnesses like meningitis and E coli .'


Kaatz, who works at the respected Institute for Bee Research at the University of Jena in Germany, built nets in a field planted with genetically modified rapeseed produced by AgrEvo.  He let the bees fly freely within the net.  At the beehives, he installed pollen traps in order to sample the pollen from the bees' hind legs when entering the hive.  This pollen was fed to young honey bees in the laboratory.  Pollen is the natural diet of young bees, which need a high protein diet.  Kaatz then extracted the intestine of the young bees and discovered that the gene from the GM rape-seed had been transferred in the bee gut to the microbes.

http://rense.com/general76/gent.htm



An Organic View On Colony Collapse Disorder

I'm on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse disorder (CCD).  


The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed antibiotics to the bees.  They also haul the hives by truck all over the place to make more money with pollination services, which stresses the colonies.


And yet, though most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites, I'm happy to say that I don't have any such problems.  WHY?


It's mostly because I've gone to natural sized cells.  In case you weren't aware, and I wasn't for a long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger bees than what you would find in a natural hive.  I've measured sections of natural worker brood combs that are 4.6mm in diameter.  What most people use for worker brood is 5.4mm in diameter.  If you translate that into 3 dimensions instead of 1, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is natural.  


On the other hand, by letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems.  One cause of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-capping times by one day.  This means less Varroa get into the cells, and less Varroa reproduce in the cells.


Why should anyone be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we coax into a larger than normal body size?  It sounds just like the beef industry, and all the rest.  And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee problem?  


Although a not uncommonly held opinion is that, since this new pattern of bee colony collapse seems to have struck from out of the blue, there must be a triggering agent, it is more likely that some biological limit in the bees has been crossed.  There is no shortage of evidence that we have been fast approaching this limit for some time.


We've been pushing them too hard, Dr. Peter Kevan, an associate professor of environmental biology at the University of Guelph in Ontario, told the CBC.  And we're starving them out by feeding them artificially, and by moving them great distances.  Given the stress commercial bees are under, Kevan suggests CCD might be caused by parasitic mites, or long cold winters, or long wet springs, or pesticides, or genetically modified crops.  Maybe it's all of the above...

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digital_biscuit

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Honey Bees
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 22:48 »
Im sorry but i do not see anywhere in the above post where GM crops are killing bees?

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dereklane

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Honey Bees
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 23:07 »
The organic bee keeper view has a ring of truth to it, in my opinion.

"Whilst weather changes may be a suspect, GM crops have also been mentioned, as has also the mass radiation now covering almost every part of the world in the shape of mobile phone signals! Let's face it, no-one yet has definitively proved that mobile phones or GM crops are utterly safe - and that's for humans. "

Bees navigate magnetically. It seems a fairly logical step to suggest that masses of low electromagnetic radiation (from many different sources) could be triggering CCD (where bees can't find the way home). If you look at the developed countries with the lowest (last time I looked) incidents reported of CCD, places like Australia stand out - last time I was there, mobile coverage was dismal, and rather pointless. Better to have a good set of bushskills than a mobile if you break down in the middle of nowhere :)

When I lived in Crawley, I tried growing runner beans, but almost no pollination (maybe my fault). But moving up to Buxton, even last year I had a bumper crop. There definitely seems more bees here, Crawley definitely has more phone masts.

We don't know of course, and can only guess this stuff, given the reluctance of govts/corporations to fund the research vital to ascertain the reason for CCD.  

Incidentally, frogs (also very beneficial to our veg environment) are being made extinct faster than any other order[?] of animals due to a new fungal infection which suffocates them. None of this bodes well for the world we live in - all these little creatures are more fundamental to our own existence than many people give credit for (not gardeners though!)

cheers,

Derek

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poultrygeist

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Honey Bees
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2008, 07:51 »
I've read about the frogs and it seems that international travel and trade has helped the fungus spread rather than stay local (the Amazon?).

The natural world is suffering because of our mobility and need for international communication.

The trade off is to forget the Global village and go back to isolation. Don't think that'll happen, so we either hope there are sub-species of every creature that is resistant to all these viruses and funguses or we accept a certain amount of collateral damage.

Sad.

Rob

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dereklane

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Honey Bees
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 10:34 »
Hi Rob,

I don't think we need to forget the global village - when you look at the majority of travel, its business, not social (and global social links keep us from insulation, not global business links, which are, in my experience, very insular).

I'm one to talk, of course, (being from Oz, and doing my share of travel until recent years - very itchy feet, mine), but I reckon we need some serious regulation (and it shouldn't be on the holiday maker, but the business traveller primarily, but I still take my holidays nowadays locally all the same). For the business traveller, there really is no excuse. We have the web, and with the will, every company big and small could hook up around the world for business meetings without ever needing to pay a physical visit. The excuses I've heard by managers are generally quite self-serving (its important to be able to shake hands, look in the eye, etc). What they really mean is, its important that I get at least a few expenses paid trips to the US every year, preferably Florida, etc (call me a cynic).

We have the technology (who knows, maybe harmful too, but definitely less so than jet fuel on the vegetation/waters and CO2 build up in the skies), so we should use that.

And on the social element (global village), there's a few without the technological links (a lot of remote Aboriginal communities in Australia are hard to contact even with a telephone), but less every year.

Of course, you won't cut back business travel, because business is more important than everything else, even our food/environment ....

See? Politics and veg growing are linked :)

cheers,

Derek

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poultrygeist

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Honey Bees
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 10:53 »
Well said. And those same managers who 'need' to travel abroad for their meetings and fact finding missions always question the need for a site visit 50 miles away when another lacky 30 miles away can just 'nip' across to have a look.

So long as humans are in charge they will always be self-serving. As you say, at the expense of everything/everyone else. Not a class thing but a human thing. Short sighted instant gratification overrriding long term conservation.

Oh no!! here we go again  :shock:

Rob

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Hazel Anne

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Honey Bees
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2008, 12:23 »
I work for a company who have just opened a green store in East sussex.My work place was within walking distance of home,i have now been relocated 50 mile round trip to a different location doing exactly the same job that was more time and cost efficient where i was before and can still be done there.
The only reason for this is because my manager has the power to do this.
We recycle everything at home and try to be as enviromentally friendly.At work there is no provisions for recycling etc.Its amazing the amount of cardboard packaging,non energy saving light bulbs etc etc.But if i bring my paper recycling box to work i get odd looks.

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Dominic

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Honey Bees
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2008, 12:25 »
Its been floated around for a while now as Colony Collapse Disorder.

There is no reliable data available for either wild or farmed honey bee populations over any period of time, even individual bee farmers keep little track of their hives, if one dies its easy enough to forma new colony.

There have been numerous groupos over the past 15 years who have claimed were all about to die because the bee's are.
Einstein even returned from the grave to help their cause.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp

Its been blamed on GM crops, mobile phones, over work, transport, disease, monotonous diet, cold winters, hot summers, wet springs.

Newspapers with little better to print or radio shows to talk about, ran the story, and on its gone, anyone remember SARS, when we were all weeks away from armagedon, despite the fact that the disease wasnt that infectious and killed about 2% of the people it did manage to infect..
We use chemicals in this garden, just as god intended

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Hazel Anne

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Honey Bees
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2008, 12:35 »
We do need to be aware of the changes happening around us and not just accept them!
Where i live there are no where near the birds there used to be,no thrushes very few Sparrows etc.
The Bees will just get fewer and we accept that untill one day the balance of nature will go to pot!!
Its a gloomy prospect but in my 46 years on this planet i have seen changes in nature.


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