[cadalot]

I have been informed by people down on the allotment that historically my plot had Hawthorne growing up the wall to detour little darlings from climbing over the wall and gaining access onto the allotment, and have been asked if I find any growing under the Jungle would I be keeping it?

I’ve only found one small plant bent over under the weight of the weeds to the left of the plot. I would like to grow something spiky in the shapes drawn below and was thinking of some kind of fast growing “Rambling Roses” that would look nice in the summer, attract the bees, and still allow me to grow beans under the arches in future years.

I know little about roses, so can I have your suggestions please for the best type of rose that has a fast growth rate and I can train into the arcs.

[Yorkie]

There is a difference between climbing and rambling roses.  I think ramblers grow long single stems which you prune out after flowering; climbers have a permanent structure which you prune in the more usual way.

But I could be wrong, and I'm not sure of varieties.

May be worth a quick search on this board as I think the question may have been asked before.

Do you have a particular colour in mind?  Are you bothered over-much about scent itself?  Repeat flowering I suppose would be a bonus for the pollinators.

[compostqueen]

If you did a mixed hedgerow it would serve the same purpose but you'd have interest all year round. Fruits and hips would make it edible to you too  Blackthorne, which is horribly thorny, produces sloes which can be turned into gin.  I've just bought some guelder rose to put in my hedge, which again can be used in cooking

Rose wise, a rambler with scent, hips and thorns would be a good plan.  You can go online to Beales roses etc where they group their roses and they would have a section for roses which make an impenetrable barrier

Be aware though that whatever thorny shrubs you choose that you will end up with the pruning job.  Having spent months pruning my own thorny allotment hedge (hawthorn) I can tell you it's not a job to be undertaken lightly 

[mumofstig]

You don't have to take out all the stems of a Rambling rose each year, if they fill the space available cutting out some from the base is advised - but I think most people just leave them to make a glorious mess until they really need hacking back  and they're deffinitely the way to go for quick thorny growth 
RHS advice here
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?PID=169

Agree with CQ about Beales for help with choosing varieties  here although once you've chosen your varieties you could perhaps buy them cheaper elsewhere

Albertine is a nice thorny pink variety and  Gardenia which is a peachy/cream is also thorny and repeat flowers later in the summer 

Or grow thorny fruit up the wall - blackberries, tayberries etc

[compostqueen]

I love roses but on the plot I'd prefer fruit. Gooseberries are lethally prickly 

[catllar]

If it's prickles you want and your site is warmish how about Mermaid - mine is growing up a pillar of the house, so up to 3 metres and then it goes horizontal for about 15 metres. It's fast growing, almost evergreen and the mid yellow single flowers appear  on and off all summer. Completely  pest resistant and an absolute b....y b....r when cutting the thing back. ( We prune it with a hedge trimmer and it makes about 2 metres of growth per season)

[griff]

For scent and spikes i grow Albertine, its a rambler the difference from rambler and climber is ramblers only flower the ones and climbers flower all through the summer.

[mumofstig]

There are a few ramblers that repeat flower - and plenty of climbers that flower only once!
So sorry, that's not a hard and fast rule..........

[cadalot]

Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions, happy to receive any more if there are any lurkers out there with views to share.

Yorkie   - I didn’t have a particular colour in mind until you raised the question, but as I lost my Mum recently I’m guessing Yellow as it was her favourite colour. I’m not really bothered about scent, but as you suggest repeat flowering would be a bonus for the pollinators and you get to enjoy the colour and flowers longer.

Compostqueen - Not really into the fruits and hips, John on our Allotment suggested brambles and blackberries but I’m in the process of purging the * from the plot and I really don’t want a source of them up against the wall to spread into the plot – I think I will be fighting them for some time as it is. And I’ve been a Gooseberry in the past but I’m not fond of Gooseberries to eat.

MumofStig– As above re fruit and – blackberries – Thanks for the link to the RHS I like the idea of the “glorious mess” above the areas shown on my photograph and keeping the sides and tops of the arches pruned I will take a look at “Beales” as suggested, and have put “Albertine” on the list. Until now I didn’t realise there are so many different types of rose!

catllar – Thanks for the suggestion of “Mermaid”  and now thanks to Yorkie I’m looking at “Yellow” flowers this appears to fit the bill, unless there are any others that are faster growers, looking at the RHS web site it says Albertine – 5m and Mermaid – 6m but the ultimate Heights and Spreads are the same, so I’m a little confused about that. And the Hardy Rating is H3 better than H4 ?

With 2 metres of growth per season I’m guessing you mean per “Year” or 4 seasons in a year would means it will be 8 metres growth in a year – nearly as good as those brambles

So at the moment it’s looking like Mermaid is the front runner

[Trillium]

A lot of folk here use rugosa roses, more of a wild rose with large rosehips. They are no care whatsoever and vigorous. True, they're not very tall but what they lack in height they make up in biting power.

The new idea for burglar proofing houses is to plant a nice stand of very prickly roses under all main floor windows. It's doubtful that any burglars come armed with secaturs or clippers 

[cadalot]

Thanks for the information but Rugosa Roses don't fit the brief at the top of the posting - I had a look at RHS web site see  http://apps.rhs.org.uk/plantselector/plant?plantid=5313 Says they take 2 - 5 years to get to 1.0 - 1.5m that's as tall as the wife in the photograph.

[Trillium]

Bung some nice rotted manure around their bases and they'll sprout before your eyes. Don't believe everything you read by 'experts'.

A major rose nursery near me used a huge 8ft tall hedge of rugosas for grafting their 'pretty' roses onto for hardiness.

[JayG]

I didn’t have a particular colour in mind until you raised the question, but as I lost my Mum recently I’m guessing Yellow as it was her favourite colour. I’m not really bothered about scent, but as you suggest repeat flowering would be a bonus for the pollinators and you get to enjoy the colour and flowers longer.

David Austin's "Graham Thomas" has lovely yellow flowers, scented but not powerfully so, and "can be trained as a short climber" according to the DA catalogue.

Mine grew to about 10' X 10' in two years so I would call it pretty vigorous!

As with all DA's "English Roses" it's a repeat flowerer - the poor weather slowed it down in 2012 so it's actually still flowering as I type this (with more to come, weather permitting!)

[Mrs Bee]

If it is prickles to deter marauding invaders why not plant some pyracanthus as well.
Evergreen, thorny with white flowers for the bees and red or yellow or orange berries for the birds. And a handful of vicious spikes to stop the marauders.


Have just had to ask OH for the name of these plants as all i could think of was the very rude gardener's  name for them.
Don't like these 'Senior moments'.

[Goosegirl]

Thanks for the information but Rugosa Roses don't fit the brief at the top of the posting - I had a look at RHS web site see  http://apps.rhs.org.uk/plantselector/plant?plantid=5313 Says they take 2 - 5 years to get to 1.0 - 1.5m that's as tall as the wife in the photograph.

I have had a hedge of Rosa rugosa for a few years and, due to  a new fence, they were chopped down to ground level. They grew about three foot this year alone. Cheap, smelll lovely, hips in autumn, yellow leaves in autumn too, and tiny bristly thorns that should deter any burgular!