[Pencrugmawr]

We have a chicken with a bad leg which she tries not to use. It started with a black nail but now the whole leg is greenish white instead of yellowy cream coloured and she spends most of her time on her own now. She's still laying but is obviously not happy. We really don't want to pay vets' bills, but would like to know if there's anything we should try before we get a friend to dispatch her.
I think I just posted this in the wrong forum so have copied it here!

[joyfull]

sorry but she is suffering, the leg is obviously infected and she either needs treating by a vet with antibiotics or dispatching.

[bygrace]

Sorry to hear about your chook's bad leg. It's a tough decision isn't it - just how long do you hang on before doing the deed?
If she's so obviously suffering, I'd put her out of her misery 

[Pencrugmawr]

Thank you so much for these quick responses. You're right, we definitely can't leave her like this.

My daughter was discharged from hospital recently with a broad spectrum antibiotic, and there was plenty left after she'd finished the course. I've worked out the dosage for Rachel by her weight, doubled it as an initial dose and given it to her on rice. She's downed most of it very happily and is now confined to the polytunnel (their favourite den anyway) with food, water and a nest. I guess we'll have to chuck her eggs away for the time being, but she doesn't seem very ill, and I'm reasonably hopeful. At least we're giving her a fighting chance and probably the vet wouldn't do much more anyway. Has anyone else tried doing this? javascript:replaceText('%20:happy:',%20document.forms.postmodify.message);

[joyfull]

Sorry to put a downer on this but you have amongst others things the following things to consider:-
A hen has a different metabolic rate to a human so therefore just working it out on a human weight ratio will not give you the correct dosage (a small hen has about the same metabolic rate as a small terrier according to my vet when working out a dosage of metacam).
I am assuming that this antibiotic is not licensed for poultry therefore you would be advised by a vet to discard her eggs for the rest of her laying days.
A vet would prescribe the correct antibiotic for the infection - she may need penicillin, aureomycin, tylan, deneguard, Baytril the list goes on and on.

[Casey76]

Sorry to be blunt, but if you do not want to pay vet bills, you should cull immediately.

You really can't take a human grade antibiotic and give it to chickens.  There are a lot of medicines which are OK for one species and poisonous to another.  For animals, often the excipients are different, and with some antibiotics it is important to either take them with food, or to take on an empty stomach.  When you factor in the high rate of metabolism for birds, this becomes another extra factor.

If your daughter has finished her course of antibiotics, please take the remainder back to the hosptial pharmacy, where the pharmacist can destroy them properly.

[Pencrugmawr]

Thanks. I worked out the dosage from a veterinary site, not from my own daughter's weight. I also checked through the uses of this particular antibiotic. Being a broad spectrum one it is effective for most infections (my daughter needed to start on an antibiotic very urgently and it would have taken too long to wait for the culture to grow, so that's why she was given a broad spectrum one), but I checked several veterinary sites and this antibiotic was mentioned specifically in the context of poultry with infected leg injuries. Since the first thing we noticed was that half the nail had gone, there was a little blood and the rest of the nail was black, I think it likely that she injured it in some way. I don't want any of my girls to suffer unnecessarily, and she is obviously uncomfortable and unable to keep up with the others; on the other hand, she is eating and drinking well and has a very healthy looking comb, so I think it is fair to give her a fighting chance.

I seem to have caused a lot of controversy, and I avoid antibiotics for myself and my children whenever possible. I'm grateful for the interest and advice, but I'm not sure what people's main concern is: i.e. that I may cause extra suffering to Rachel, that I may do no good and therefore prolong her suffering or that I'm contributing to the global problem of antibiotic resistant bacteria.
 

[Casey76]

You say you don't want your hen to suffer... then take her to a vet, where they may give her an injection to kick start the healing process... though if the infection, which started off being an infected broken toe nail, has now travelled up her leg, it may now be unmanagable.

It depends on how severe the infection is, if it has entered her bloodstream (septicaemia) or her leg bone (osteomyelitis).

You need to make a decision as to whether your chickens are pets or livestock.  If pets, then you would normally take them to a vet to be diagnosed and treated; if livestock then you give them a fighting chance but cull once the bird starts to suffer.  All livestock should have the freedom from pain and suffering, and appropriate veterinary care should be sought.

A fighting change does not mean give them antibiotics prescribed for a human.

[joyfull]

our main concern is for this hen, what is the name and strength of the antibiotic? Please could you also let us know the website that you got the dosage information on? Thanks.

[Pencrugmawr]

The antibiotic is amoxycillin 250mg/5ml and here is a link to the website that gave me the dosage information: http://zooveterinary.com/veterinary-drugs/broad-spectrum-penicillins.

I have been closely monitoring her and she's looking quite chirpy, though still lame. She's keen to rejoin the others, but since she can't keep up with them anyway I don't feel bad on her own. If she gets worse or if she does not improve within 48 hours of starting, we will have to cull her.

To answer someone else's question, I don't feel the need to label them as either pets or livestock. We got them because we like hens and we enjoy fresh free-range eggs and love to give them away to friends and family. We let them roam freely round the garden and put up with the damage and mess they cause, because we take pleasure in seeing them so obviously happy. However, we are on a low income and don't feel justified in spending on vets' bills; we prefer to donate to children's/medical charities in third world countries.  Pain and suffering come in degrees, and if I believed one of them was seriously sick or in pain, I would make sure it was dispatched, particularly if there wasn't anything I could do about it.

I guess this would make an interesting thread in itself, and I'm not sure if not treating them like pets makes us anathema to this site...

[Casey76]

I guess that the antibiotic you have for your daughter is a syrup?  Did you dilute it in the hens drinking water, or give in via syring into her mouth?

Can you confirm that the hen received 0.8ml of the 250mg/5mL (assuming hen weighs 2kg) amoxicillin?

How long were you going to administer this for, and how many times a day?

We got them because we like hens and we enjoy fresh free-range eggs and love to give them away to friends and family. We let them roam freely round the garden and put up with the damage and mess they cause, because we take pleasure in seeing them so obviously happy. However, we are on a low income and don't feel justified in spending on vets' bills;

This is just wrong!

[Aunt Sally]

She may need metacam as well !

[Ice]

If you can't afford to keep them fit and well then you ought not to have hens at all.  Giving them human antibiotics with instructions from the internet is bordering on lunacy.  It's time to man up and do the right thing by culling it.

I post as a keeper of three hens, not as a moderator of this forum.

[Pencrugmawr]

I worked out the correct dosage as being 0.6-0.8ml, but increased this somewhat for her initial dose to zap the bacteria.

She's certainly not looking any the worse for this, if anything somewhat perkier.

I have aroused a lot of negative feeling, though this has not always been combined with reasoned argument, so I'll keep quiet for a bit, but let you know what happens to Rachel.

[Ice]

There has been plenty of reasoned argument, it's just that it wasn't what you wanted to hear.  I'm locking the topic.