[christopher b]

Hi everyone and a happy new year.
I have done some gardening over the last 50 years but only small gardens, 3months ago i took on an allotment in Denaby, nr. Doncaster along with my next door neighbour and friend(so far anyway)
We spent many an unhappy hour/day/week cutting down a mountain of nettles, thistles and brambles - by hand - then started digging out the roots, turning over soil and raking etc.  So far we have cleared and made ready approx.150 sq metres, have bought a polytunnel(waiting for the worst of the weather to come and go before erecting this), buying seed, have to collect a small shed on saturday from a kind freecycler.

Now for the difficult bit, I have some questions, if any one can help with advice, it will be greatly appreciated!  Daughter is buying me 3 apple and plum bare root plants, any ideas as to how far apart to plant them and location also how long before i can start to get fruit?
In a tunnel 4.5m x 2m. how much room should i give up to staging?  Hope eventually to cultivate approx. 300 sq, metres, and know my mate would like to keep some chucks(for eggs) but would we need to be there every day - morning and night?

Thanks for reading and hope someone can helpmeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!     Chris

[Yorkie]

Hello Chris

Welcome to the site   

I've moved your question into its own thread and moved it to GYO.

Re the fruit trees, firstly check that your allotment allows them at all.  Some don't.

Secondly, assuming they are allowed, consider their size.  Fruit trees' size is dependent on their rootstock.  I advise that you get a rootstock which means that the tree won't get much more than 8-10' maximum height and spread, for several reasons:

1. harvestability
2. reduced competition for water and nutrients for your other crops
3. reduced shade for your plot and, just as importantly, your neighbouring allotment holders' plots.

If you look up any fruit nursery online you'll get an idea of the different rootstocks for apples and plums. 

Are you being bought 3 each of the apples and plums, or 3 in total?  3 of each is rather excessive for a regular sized allotment in my view.  If total of 3, make sure that you won't have fertilisation difficulties - leave this detail for a separate question on here I suggest.

I don't know the answer to the staging question - if you don't get an answer on here, you could repost it in the Growing in Greenhouses and Polytunnels sub board.

As for chickens, again I suggest you post this in the Hen House forum if you don't get answers here in GYO.  You will need to check there is water at the site all year round, and that they are permitted (they should be) on site.  Are you thinking of putting them in the polytunnel or elsewhere?

[gobs]

"Daughter is buying me 3 apple and plum bare root plants, any ideas as to how far apart to plant them and location also how long before i can start to get fruit?
In a tunnel 4.5m x 2m. how much room should i give up to staging?  Hope eventually to cultivate approx. 300 sq, metres, and know my mate would like to keep some chucks(for eggs) but would we need to be there every day - morning and night?"

As per Yorkie, really. More detail needed on the trees. Could she get a voucher or buy together? One each - well chosen - can bear a lot of fruit. Your final garden size well allows for biggish ones. Chooks can go under them.

I do not know about the tunnel shelving. If having no gh maybe the 2m width with a seed tray wide stage shelving. Just wondering here.

Yes, you probably would need to go down every day, if you keep chickens, but you really do ask this in the appropriate section, a lot of experience there.

[seedman]

Hi Chris welcome to the site, i will let them with more grey matter answer your questions.
just a welcome

[christopher b]

Thank you all very much for greetings, i wasn't expecting such a speedy response.

3 trees are ;- 2 bramley seedlings and a victoria plum, site does allow but wants them in containers.

Have  some very large crates which i am going to sink below ground level.  Water is available tap is just 5 yards away

[Yorkie]

Do you have the trees already, then, Chris?  Do you know what their rootstocks are?

Are the crates intended to be the containers insisted upon by the allotment people?  What are they made out of?

[christopher b]

crates are hardwood, not fully covered, roughly 4' x 3' and used to hold exotic paving slabs.

trees should be here next week and are grafted onto M9 so i hope will be about 9-10 feet high

[gobs]

crates are hardwood, not fully covered, roughly 4' x 3' and used to hold exotic paving slabs.

trees should be here next week and are grafted onto M9 so i hope will be about 9-10 feet high

Lol. You can't keep the chickens under them. You ask about something that is already done. A bit of a waste of everybody's time.

[christopher b]

sorry, not my intention to waste anyone's time gobs.

Questions were all asked honestly, yes to all purposes i already have trees almost, crates is just an idea to appease council and so as not to stunt trees too much.  As for chucks, i know nothing more than i like eggs.

[Yorkie]

To be honest I don't think your plan to use those 'crates' is compliant with the requirement for containers.

The point of making you grow them in containers is that they are portable and not permanent.  Planting them in those 'crates' in the ground means that they are not portable and will be permanent.  If there are gaps, the roots will just grow straight through them, and the wood will rot off in the ground over time anyway.

On my site if I saw that, you'd be getting a warning letter advising you of a breach of your tenancy.

I think you need to rethink your plans, sorry.

You can get very big plastic / rubber containers with drainage holes - they would be a far better idea.

[christopher b]

Yorkie dont be sorry, came on site to learn and hopefully get answers to queries.

I am already rethinking trees, maybe old fashioned plastic dustbins or similar.

[gobs]

OK. Just taking long to get to the point.

[engineer]

Hi, just down the road in Hatfield

I think you may have a problem with your Bramley's, they are what is known as a Triploid, which requires 2 other types of tree to pollinate it 

have a look at this link it explaines the rules of pollination 
http://www.ashridgetrees.co.uk/Apple-Tree-Pollination

and this one for the trees  http://www.chrisbowers.co.uk/index.php which explaines rootstock, if you have a dwarfing rootstock you could use your tubs

[shokkyy]

And re your polytunnel staging - in my polytunnel book it suggests suspended staging/shelves, which would save you room and keep anything on the shelf safe from slugs and mice. It suggests making a wood frame and covering with strong mesh, which keeps the weight down and also allows light through to the crops beneath. You'd then suspend the frame at both ends from the crop bars.