Is there anything I can do..... looks like fatality number 3 is imminent

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Diddy Gardener

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That's really sad... sorry to hear that. It sounds like you really tried though and they couldn't have asked for anything more than that  :)
Lucky Mother of 2 dogs, 2 cats (RiP Sherlock) and 4 chickens (welcome Brenda and Harriet)

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Colernehens

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Well Bumble (the sick Hen) is currently at the vet with my husband. I don't think she will be coming home again. We have discussed the cost of a post mortem when we made the appointment and they said £15, so if there is nothing that can be done for her, then she will have a pm to try and find out if this mystery can be solved.

Will keep you posted.

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joyfull

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at least this way you will know one way or another if there is anything you can do  :(
Staffies are softer than you think.

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cluckie

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Truly sorry, I do hope you find the cause.xxx :(

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Colernehens

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Hhmmm could be Lymphoid Leukosis see http://www.poultryhub.org/bird-health-and-disease/lymphoid-leukosis/  This usually strikes birds at maturity and one of the symptoms is loss of appetite, emancipation.   If so there's no cure and an autopsy should be able to confirm.

Below is a paste from http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/disviral.htm with relevant passages in bold.

"Lymphoid leukosis characteristically produces lymphoid tumors, particularly in the liver and spleen. The tumors may also affect other visceral organs such as ovary and lungs. Affected birds may die without preliminary symptoms, but the disease usually is chronic in nature and affected birds show loss of appetite, progressive emaciation and diarrhea. Clinically affected birds invariably die. Losses due to the disease are most severe shortly after onset of egg production, but losses will continue for as long as the flock is retained. Total loss may approach twenty percent during the life of a flock.

Clinical diagnosis of lymphoid leukosis is based upon flock history and disease manifestations. The lymphoid disease cannot be readily distinguished from the visceral response to Marek's disease; however, there are some features that aid in differential diagnosis.

There is no treatment for lymphoid leukosis. Although the disease cannot be prevented completely, there are certain steps that can be taken to help control the level of infection within a flock. Some steps are:
•Buy resistant strains of birds since genetic resistance is a deterrent,
•Brood in isolation and do not mix birds of different ages, especially through six weeks of age,
•Keep the incubator clean and disinfected,
•Control blood-sucking parasites,
•Good care, limiting stress, and adequate ration will be of benefit"

Chickens with lymphoid leukosis show nonspecific clinical signs including inappetence, weakness, diarrhea, dehydration, and emaciation. Infected chickens become depressed before death. Palpation often reveals an enlarged bursa and sometimes an enlarged liver. Infected birds may not necessarily develop tumors, but they may lay fewer eggs.

Best of luck
HF


Hi - This is husband of Colernehens!  :D

All credit to Hillfooter for what looks like the correct diagnosis.  A great vet allowed me to get involved with the post-mortem.  There were several large intestinal tumours which look lymphoid in origin - the lumen was as good as blocked.  I didn't want to go to the expense to get some histopathology to confirm, but given the symptoms, history of the rest of our flock and what we've seen I'm happy this is the likely diagnosis.

The question now is what to do - we will have to let the breeder we got them from know.  We have one left from that batch that seems to be well.  I wonder if they have no symptoms in the next several months (the virus latency period) then we can consider them to be virus free. Any ideas?

Thanks again for all your support and suggestions, interesting that a few of you had similar symptoms.

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hillfooter

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Thanks for letting us know the results and sorry it turned out so badly for the orps.

When I read colernehens first post I had my suspictions which is why I asked about the milky droppings or green in advanced cases of LL.  The timing of the deaths was also very typical of LL 16 to 18 weeks incubation is usual.  However I don't like to jump to such a grim diagnosis when a toxin could also produce these symptoms but the second post more or less ruled that out.  I've come across this before and it's more widespread than is generally reported as it's often misdiagnosed as Mareks.

You may get some joy from going back to the breeder with your vets report it depends on how reputable (s)he is.  Anyone reading this if you are buying stock from a breeder never be affraid to ask about health issues and how they ensure heathy stock and what guarentee they will give should a bird develop an illness which is clearly linked to it's breeding.  Here LL could only have come from an infected parent bird.  You can always ask about vaccination but many smaller breeders won't vaccinate anyway.  There no vaccine for LL anyway.

Your remaining Orp could be carrying the virus or not it doesn't always produce tumours or prove fatal.  

LL is passed vertically usually via the egg so the offspring of an infected parent will be infected.  So obviously you shouldn't breed from this hen.  The virus isn't very contagious and is easily killed with good sanitation and exposure to a disinfectant.  Horizontal infection isn't as virulent as vertical as adult birds have some immunity but LL infected hens don't pass on antibodies to the egg.

So I'd suggest if you want to take the small risk this bird might transmit the disease horizontally you could keep her.  Clean up as best you can and disinfect the house and run using Vanodine V18 spray or Stalosan F powder disinfectant.  Keep this bird away from young chicks and keep an eye out for symptoms particularly milky droppings.  Cull if she shows symptoms of the disease but she maybe lucky.

Best of luck
HF
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 10:55 by hillfooter »
Truth through science.

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Colernehens

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Thanks Hillfooter.

We have used Stalosan F Powder in their coop for several months now, and the chicks have had it in their bedding since they were 2 weeks old, so that should be helping.

We are going to keep the remaining Orp as at the moment she show no indication that she has it, her comb and wattle are well developed unlike the others and she is visibly growing and maturing. However at the first sign of it she will be culled.

The chicks only went out side into their coop and run on Wednesday this week, so their exposure to our adult hens has been almost zero. They are currently in the free-range area, but not free-ranging with the hens, and their run is on flag stones, so very easy to clean and disinfect. However just to be doubly sure, today we are going to move the fencing of the free-range area so that the chicks are still visible to the hens, but outside where they are free-ranging. We will not allow them to run together for at least the next 6 months so we can be sure that everyone is ok.

I am going to contact the breeder this morning, but as he didn't even acknowledge the death if the first two, I don't have much confidence, although i really hope this time he will take note.

Thank you once again, for all the advice and support and lets hope we have seen the last of such a sad few months.

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joyfull

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at least with the post mortem you will have the proof to confront him.
Sadly this is all too familiar - Grumpy dad lost a lot of hens to Mareks (confirmed after a pm) from a bad breeder who never acknowledged he had injected them with old vaccine (mareks vaccine needs to be used within an hour of opening it) and I lost 7 chicks to vent gleet through a breeder either hatching dirty infected eggs or not cleaning his incubator properly again proven by a pm (they were too young to get it off a cockerel and my feed is kept dry and mould free).


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