[Funky Diver]

Long story short...

I'm on the list for an allotment (have been for a couple of years now)

I have a big garden, half of which is pretty much currently the dogs playground.  The space itself is around 20m x 10m and has all sorts surviving there now.  Dock, nettles, brambles, etc.

Short term plan - convert this dead space into useable space for growing a selection of edibles.

Now I appreciate that on an allotment, I probably won't have paths apart from any hard paths already in-situ, so we'll put that to one side for now.

So far as the Barren Lands are concerned, the soil is heavy clay and never been cultivated.  It originally had horses kept on it back to the start of time (my house was a pair old coaching "cottages" originally on the outskirts of town)

The plan involves raised beds (more to distinguish that which is growing space from walking space than anything) using 13ft scaffolding boards to make 13ft x 5ft beds (roughly).

I've read and re-read a gazzillion articles of advice... particularly dealing with the weed situation.  The temptation is to take off the top 3 inches of soil (I'm not afraid of the work) and dig in a mix of weedfree topsoil, compost and sand to raise the levels and aeration (probably with the help of my uncles rotorvator. 

I WANT this area of the garden to be generally tidy as it's effectively an extension of the garden rather than allotment... long term plan involving the allotment to gain growing space for function over form considered.  Paths are 3ft wide.  Garden runs roughly E-W so layout has been designed to accomodate this.

So... the question is... am I being a bit rash on digging off the top surface to reduce the weed issue in the long term?  Do I need to take more off?

And I have a plan for the excess soil anyways, so it isn't going to waste.

Cheers
Rich

[Jamie Butterworth]

Hello and welcome to the forum

It seems like youve got a lot of hard work ahead of you, but your plan seems to be good, it could be a bit expensive however if your planning on replacing that much topsoil

You mentioned the paths, you could put down a weed fabric and cover with bark, which good and last at least 5 years and is a lot cheaper than pebbles or such.

The raised beds seem a good idea as you have heavy clay soil, people on here seemto be split about raised beds, but in my opinion they work really well and look good which is important if like you say its an extension to the garden

And Good Luck, try and take some before and after photos

[noshed]

Hi FD
I would dig out the worst brambles etc and then put newspaper/cardboard down as the base of your raised beds. Then fill the beds up with your compost/topsoil etc.
Another option would be to glyphosate the lot but it's a bit late in the year for that.

[Fisherman]

I would possibly weed kill the area where your raised beds are going to be. If there are not too many weeds just turn the soil over or possibly double dig and put the top layer with the weeds in the bottom of the trench. Your raised beds can then be filled with compost, manure and sand mixed with your existing soil. Although clay type soils are hard to work with at the beginning they have all the components to make a good growing medium.

The raised bed width is best at about 1.3 Mts which allows you to comfortably reach the middle. Path widths are OK at 0.75 - 1.0 Mts.

As Jamie mentioned a weed stop fabric can be used in between the beds to suppress any weed growth. If you plan to use the fabric check out the width of it and design your path widths accordingly.

[Yorkie]

I am not convinced by your plan.

3" will not be deep enough to rid yourself of the perennial / troublesome weeds.  You will leave roots behind and they will just grow back through the costly replacement soil.  You will also transfer the weeds to the soil's new location.

Rotavation will also chop any surviving roots into lots of extra pieces, creating more of a problem.

As others have suggested, getting rid of the weeds in the usual ways should be your priority.  Weedkiller may work but it needs the weeds to be growing sufficiently strongly to take the chemical down to the roots, and the weeds need to be dry on application - and remain dry for at least 6 hours - to stand a chance of being effective.

I think the best option is to get digging.

[DD.]

I'll back Yorkie 110% here.

My plot neigbours did such a thing, skimmed off the top few inches, and plonked in raised beds.

They now have a plot that grows couch grass, docks & bindweed in the paths and raised beds.

There are no short cuts to avoid hard work.

[Funky Diver]

Hi All,

Many thanks for the replys, I'm certainly not afraid of digging, that's for sure.  In terms of pathways, I will probably just leave them as grass in all honesty.  What is there is generally OK, so digging out the worst of the weeds and replacing with weed seed at the start of the year sounds like the most aesthetic option.  Any weed that pop up on the grass paths can get treated during the growing season next year.  I'm not after manicured lawn effect pathways that's for sure.

Weighing up all the info... and trying to deal with the weeds and clay soil in one hit....

Double dig each of the beds, putting weedy soil face down in the bottom of the beds and mix compost / sand with the top layers to bulk it up.  Top up as necessary with topsoil to get a decent height in the bed.

Thankfully most of the nettle runners are VERY high in the top soil, so seem to be coming out with a bit of careful persuasion.  I think even the weeds are having a hard time establishing themselves the soil is THAT compacted!!  I nearly surprised myself at the lack of size on the dock root I just pulled out... it was only 3 inches long.

Anyhoo, here's the before picture for reference... we're on chopping back the hedge - that'll gain us an extra 6 foot to the width of the garden as it is. 



The shed at the top end is being brought closer to the house (roughly behind where the picture was taken) to make way for composting and the chicken run up that end.

The path you can partly see runs right up to the top, but will be getting a makeover to make it more of a permanent walkway up to the end.

We're sticking a 2m x 2.5 m polytunnel to the right side (just left of the small wooden kids house thing) partly as I refuse to cut down the tree that's there already and it's a decent space for it.

[Yorkie]

Good luck!

I do still think that even with the revised plan, the weeds will grow back.  However you may get away with it, let us know how it's doing come next summer. 

[Funky Diver]

True enough... but localised weeding will be easier than the current locality of the weeding... which is pretty much ALL of the content of the photo.

Tripple digging?  (I'm kidding, I don't like digging THAT much and I might get accused of trying to hide a body)

I don't fancy having to torch the whole top end of the garden, and I haven't been able to find napalm in a suitably sized container, lol.

[Jamie Butterworth]

Can you not just take out each weed, just dig them out and put them on the compost heap?

There doesnt look to be too many weeds

[Fisherman]

Hi FD, I assume you have a family of about 20 to feed if you want an allotment as well as your garden which is already big enough to supply a normal sized family chickens and all

[Tenhens]

Hello from another new comer. Your project looks similar to what I'm undertaking although your plot is slightly bigger. My biggest hurdle at present is time and dark evenings. I have set up compost bins -3- so far ,two of which came from modified pallets that I was able to aquire and have moved a 30 year old (at least) potting shed from the other end of garden ,a welcome blessing if the heavens open! and I can't be bothered to walk back to the house.

I have removed some turf and literally chucked in some runner beans, leeks and pumpkins(Halloween!) Have had some success with these. Cauliflower did not go to plan! Looking forward to next year.

Good luck

[Funky Diver]

Hi FD, I assume you have a family of about 20 to feed if you want an allotment as well as your garden which is already big enough to supply a normal sized family chickens and all

lol, 4 kids so six of us in total. 

We're more aiming for variety than quantity in all honesty.  Each of us chose 3 "things" we like to eat fruit and veg wise which gave us our growing list, except the youngest one (10weeks)  and the next youngest (2) just wants tomatoes, lol.

The two elder kids are getting their own beds to do with as they please with a little help weeding and such like