[Penfold]

I've now got access to the allotment and have my hands on my plot.... most of the "debris" was cleared but there is allot of spurious greenery (mainly grass) over most of the site.

I was planning to:
1. treat the greenery with something to kill it off (don't know what yet)
2. dig it all over (including the dead greenery?) with a rotavator
3. cover the site
4. over time work down the plot making new beds

My unknowns are
1. whats best to kill the grass/weeds and their roots without any dubious side effects to what I grow?
2. is it safe to dig it in?
3. what's best to cover the newly dig soil (I've seen all sorts) - the soil is basically blue clay, if I use plastic sheet is the soil liable to go "stale"? Is proper matting worth the cost?
4. is the purchase of a rotavator a sensible investment over renting?

Any thoughts.... cheers all

[Yorkie]

Congrats on the new plot 

I'll turn to your questions in a mo, but I would definitely recommend creating some beds as soon as you can, so that you can see some planting and keep motivated. 

Re questions 1 & 2: By your reference to applying something to kill the weeds, I assume you do not want to go down the organic route and are proposing a chemical weedkiller?  If so, the only one really available is one with glyphosate as the active ingredient.  Roundup is the best known brand but unbranded is cheaper. 

Apply as per instructions, on a windless day, when it is not going to rain for at least 6 hours.  The weeds take a couple of weeks to die off as the glyphosate needs to be taken down to the roots, but after that you can rotavate safely.  No planting delay is necessary.

Re Q3 - this partly depends on how long the cover will stay down and what resources you have.  Black plastic doesn't allow air or water through and therefore, yes, the soil will become stale over time.  Cardboard is good, but disintegrates within a season.  Fabric / membrane is very effective but is more costly.  Please no carpet, for lots of reasons which I won't go into here unless you really want me to 

Re Q4 - don't know how much it costs to hire one so can't advise but over the long term I'd have thought you'd get your money out of a purchase - assuming you can store it safely etc etc.

[oldbean]

Glyphosate mixes do not disappear completely, there is also the problem of it's killing things other than weeds, and you should do some reading so you are better informed before using it. The chemical users will not agree, but it is possible to deal with the weeds without. You will not be thanked for overspray or drift.

You can put down a heavyweight woven, weed suppressing fabric, or cardboard to exclude the light. This will get rid of most of the weeds but takes a while though it stops things getting out of hand until you get round to it. I got some for around 50p/sq metre.

For quicker access to the soil, these are a great help. Manufactured  in the uk. You can cut the weeds off a suitable area, pile them up to rot down and use them to add humus later. Another site, (get-digging.co.uk) is useful, but they seem to have gone on holiday.

Always digging is hard work, and the "no-digging" exponents demonstrate it is possible to do without the annual dig, and just benefit from incidental planting work, this would mean you could look at saving the cost of a rotovator. If you have to make a living from it, it's a different matter.

[PAULW]

I cant understand why plots are let in the middle of the growing season most allotmenteers by now have a plot full to bursting waiting to take out the first early's so they can get the next batch of plants in the ground, RANT OVER.

1. whats best to kill the grass/weeds and their roots without any dubious side effects to what I grow?
A FORK no radioactive fallout no residual affects apart from an aching back

2. is it safe to dig it in?
 ALL APART FROM bindweed,marestail and dock roots put these in a bag take home and put in the bin
3. what's best to cover the newly dig soil (I've seen all sorts) - the soil is basically blue clay, if I use plastic sheet is the soil liable to go "stale"? Is proper matting worth the cost?
VEGATABLES thats what you got the plot for

4. is the purchase of a rotavator a sensible investment over renting?
JUST DEPENDS on how keen you are if you are going to be a five minute wonder it is a lot of money to shell out if allotmenteering becomes a passion then go and by one, there may be a chap on the site who already has one and would do your plot for a drink


[/quote]

[celjaci]

Congratulations on getting a plot

I'm with OldBean on the Glyphosate issue - it's not as straightforward as the manufacturers would have you believe.

Also agree with the woven weed-proof membrane - it allows air and water through while killing the weeds. I have cleared large areas of pernicious weeds with this method - easy but takes time. You could plant squash or pumkin through the membrane thus getting a crop whilst clearing the ground.
Look out for Mypex or Phormisol from horticultural suppliers or sometimes 'terram' at the builders merchants. You can get it 4 or 5m wide so it covers a lot of ground easily

Also agree with the others - it would be good to clear an area by hand and gets some crops in - it's a long while til next spring!

On the rotavator hire/buy question - I hired a decent rotavator from Jewsons for about £40 and decided at that price it's not worth buying one to have it sitting round

Good Luck - hope you manage to grow something this year

[gillie]

Weedkillers: We use Glyphosate sparingly because we would not have the strength to grow anything if we did not.  Some organic growers use it on new ground  to get a clean start before they start going into conversion.  We could argue all day about the ethics of using weedkillers and what constitutes a 'dubious side effect' but crops sown after glyophosate has been correctly applied grow perfectly well.

Rotovators:  Try before you buy.  The most powerful ones are difficult to handle - my OH described it as 'grabbing the bull by the horns and pushing it backwards'.  A cheap one may not do the job.  You may need to strim the grass off (whether dead or alive) to stop the rotovator getting constantly tangled up.

Once ground has been cleared and broken a rotovator chops up weeds allowing them to propagate so you are probably better off digging weeds out rather than in.
 
Have fun!

Cheers,

Gillie

[poppies]

Hi
   I agree with Gillie rotavators are heavy to use I have tried to use our's but I have'nt the strength  to dig it into the soil, but although it chops up the weeds, where the soil is loose they are easy to pull out so I personaly think it is worth using it  as long as you can keep up with weeding.

[Penfold]

Cheers all for the feedback.... I'm keen not to use chemicals and at the moment I'm counting on stength in mubers as the whole family want to get involved (which in my book includes digging).

I have loads of plants ready to put in the ground and if something is on site and growing it will remind me why I'm there.

Thanks again

[Trillium]

If you're keen at all on rotovators, hire one first as a sort of test drive to see if you like using it and can handle it. It'll give you a better idea of the machine's power and what would suit you.

[janeheritage]

Congrats on your new plot. Enjoy!

We took on a plot last year, which was very overgrown with pernicious weeds - bindweed, couch grass and marestail. We cleared it by hand digging (it was a small half plot - I don't envy you  ) and covered it with water permeable membrane. I bought enough for the whole plot off eBay for about £40 and it was worth every penny.

We planted summer and winter squash and French beans through the membrane in the first year and despite the rotten summer got a fairly good crop. This year we have used the membrane on the paths and made proper beds - 5 - 4 for rotation and 1 for cut flowers.

I also think a mattock/African diggin hoe is easier than a fork or spade.

We still get the really bad weeds but we will persist!  :blink:

Good luck!

[janeheritage]

Actually I do envy you. I'd kill for a full plot 

[Roughlee Handled]

Just have to wonder do you oldbean work for/own/have shares in a heavyweight woven, weed suppressing fabric company?  You seem to harp on about it allot.

[janeheritage]

Coo, RH, you really are paranoid, aren't you?    :blink:

...mind you, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you....

[aelf]

congrats on the plot - lots of good advice already given, I just have a word of caution re the rotivator. It may be best to hand dig the site first to uncover or get out any rubble, bricks, glass, iron railings etc that may have been buried by previous owners. That is what I was up against when I got my plot and they were all 6-12 ins below the surface, just the right depth to cause problems with rotivating. And its not funny when the rotivator throws out a half brick! 

[Ice]

Just have to wonder do you oldbean work for/own/have shares in a heavyweight woven, weed suppressing fabric company?  You seem to harp on about it allot.

It's probably a subsidiary of Mattocks R Us.