Making use of perennial weeds.

  • 19 Replies
  • 882 Views
*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Making use of perennial weeds.
« on: April 15, 2023, 14:14 »
Firstly an admission. I am here under false pretences. We started with an allotment but for many years now we have been farming a croft. *

When we took it over the croft was very neglected and the grazing fields were badly infested with thistles. Pulling them up each year just when the flower buds have formed has cut the thistle numbers to a very low level , maybe 5% of what we started with but we still have a "weed-pile-of-no-return" where 3 or 4 barrowfulls of thistles (and a few roots of other perennial weeds that come up in the veg' area) are dumped each year. This irks me!

-- If I got a water butt & drowned them would thistles make good liquid feed?

--Could I just keep running more liquid out from the tap all summer or would it go off after a while?

--How long would I need to wait until I could put the sludge in the main compost heaps? (and how would I get it out?!)

--Does anyone do anything else to get some use out of their weeds?

Thank you. 
Windy. :D









*Be careful - allotmenteering is a dangerous addiction that can escalate.

*

Subversive_plot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Athens, Georgia, USA
  • 2460
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2023, 17:08 »
Before I wind up too much, I will throw out a disclaimer.  I am not encouraging making silage out of your weeds!

However, you can use some of the silage-making techniques to kill the weeds for eventual composting. 

Farming on a croft, you probably know this, but for others that might not be familiar, silage is essentially vegetable matter that has been fermented to preserve it as animal feed.  In older times, it was often made in a deep trench and covered with soil. For many years now, it has been made wrapped in plastic.  You sometimes see it when moist round hay bales are stored in a pasture or hay field, looking like giant marshmallows!   Silage can also be made from other materials, such as green corn stalks, sometimes mixed with grain.  To ferment properly, and preserve rather than spoil silage is maintained in an anaerobic state during processing (keep air out as much as possible). Silage-making also produces heat, so the anaerobic condition and heat should kill seeds and any roots or shoots.

Another way to do it is to lay vegetative material on large heavy-gauge plastic sheet (you need 2 sheets, a top and bottom sheet). Put the moist vegetation mostly in the middle of the bottom sheet, making a pile.  It is better if the material is first chopped before it is placed on the tarp. (lawn mower with a bagger would work).  When you have piled up everything you can, lay the second sheet of plastic on top of the pile.  Fold up the edges of the plastic sheets with the goal of keeping air out.  Use stones (or something like old tires) to weight down the plastic sheets.

The pile will heat up, but at some point, will also cool down.  Although it might be safe to compost when it has cooled, I would leave it wrapped up for a while longer to be sure all weeds, roots, and shoots are dead.

I am uncertain about adding more chopped vegetation at a later date if you want to add more to the pile.  It would need to heat up and cool down again. 

Since it was anaerobic for a while, expect an odor when you open it up.  Not roses!  :lol:
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 17:12 by Subversive_plot »
"Somewhere between right and wrong, there is a garden. I will meet you there."~ Rumi

*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2023, 18:31 »
That's something new to think about. I was on the track of killing them under water. My neighbours will think I'm barmy if I start silaging my thistles! :nowink:
We do have a baler and wrapper because we make silage for the cows. If I used that the thistles would need to be stored somewhere because we pull them an hour at a time over about a month.  The baler needs a big pile of grass to go at so it can compress it & not leave air between the layers. That's to STOP it from heating though, because obviously for cows you want lovely sweet-smelling silage, not composted & pongy.
I need to think about this! ::)

Edited to add the wrapping machine doesn't work unless you make a solid, compressed bale.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 18:34 by coldandwindy »

*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2023, 18:55 »
Does anyone know how long you need to wait before the dregs of weed tea can go on the compost heap?

*

Subversive_plot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Athens, Georgia, USA
  • 2460
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2023, 14:06 »
Not sure about weed tea, sorry.

I will add that if you have goats, they often will eat thistles.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 17:49 by Subversive_plot »

*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2023, 14:54 »
Not sure about weed tea, sorry.

I will add that if you have goats, thy often will eat thistles.
Ha ha, no, we are a goat-free zone! Lovely creatures when owned by other people. Trouble with a capital T !

*

New shoot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Reading
  • 18521
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2023, 14:55 »
I have had a small weed water butt set up before on the plot, when I was clearing it and I had a lot of perennial weeds to dispose of.

They do rot down to almost nothing, so I found I could leave it until late winter or very early spring and just do one big empty of the sludge.  That would be for weeds chucked in over spring and summer.  Autumn and winter dug ones would get chucked in a heap ready to start the next batch.

You might have to scale that up for a croft, but it is a low tech and not too much work option  :)

*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2023, 19:15 »
I have had a small weed water butt set up before on the plot, when I was clearing it and I had a lot of perennial weeds to dispose of.

They do rot down to almost nothing, so I found I could leave it until late winter or very early spring and just do one big empty of the sludge.  That would be for weeds chucked in over spring and summer.  Autumn and winter dug ones would get chucked in a heap ready to start the next batch.

You might have to scale that up for a croft, but it is a low tech and not too much work option  :)
That's interesting. Did you run liquid feed out to use, or just use it to kill them before composting?

*

New shoot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Reading
  • 18521
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2023, 19:52 »
I did use to tap it for liquid feed later on in the summer, when the bottom layers were pretty well rotted.  The disadvantage of a water butt is that the tap clogs quite easily, so some sort of soft mesh pushed into it inside the water butt as a filter helps.  I have no idea if the feed goes off as such.  It smells so vile, you would be pushed to tell   :lol:

The sludge is also pretty awful.  One advantage of tackling it over the colder months is that the smell is not quite so bad.  You have to tip the water butt right over and get a hose running in there to clear it.  I used to chuck in a trench intended to grow beans or the like later in the year and cover it with soil as fast as I could.  I had thistles, dandelions, buttercups, bindweed and couch grass to get rid of.  Neither the feed or the sludge seemed to spread them around. 

Eventually the plot got a lot clearer and I stopped doing it, as you do need a lot of weeds to make it worthwhile.  Now I have a few buckets of really nasty weeds a year, rather than every time I worked on the allotment.

*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2023, 14:53 »
I'm a bit confused. I'm not deliberately thick but I seem to be able to manage it with no effort at all.  :lol:

I have read a couple of articles on weed tea that say you need to bubble air through the water. Other places it says just to seal the weeds up in a water butt. One I read said leave a small hole so it doesn't explode!

Can someone explain to me whether/why you need air or not.  :wacko:

Thank you.

*

Christine

  • Guest
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2023, 17:19 »
Not sure about weed tea, sorry.

I will add that if you have goats, thy often will eat thistles.
Ha ha, no, we are a goat-free zone! Lovely creatures when owned by other people. Trouble with a capital T !
You may find that local goat keepers are willing to rentagoat for clearing purposes.

*

Subversive_plot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Athens, Georgia, USA
  • 2460
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2023, 17:36 »

Can someone explain to me whether/why you need air or not.  :wacko:

Thank you.

I can take a stab at the difference presence or absence of air would make.

The presence of oxygen will control the type of metabolism that happens during decomposition.  With adequate air, the biological processes are aerobic.  Without air, they are anaerobic.  This article offers the opinion that aerobic compost tea is marginally better than anaerobic: https://thatbackyard.com/anaerobic-compost-tea/.  That appears to be based on a desire to introduce more aerobic microbes into garden soil, which are reported (in the article) to be marginally better than the anaerobic ones.

I'll offer the perspective that I don't make either aerobic or anaerobic weed tea or compost tea.  If you feel like it helps your garden grow better, go for it!  I do know (based on some experience in soil science) that in healthy soil, there are a good number of both aerobic and anaerobic microbes present, the aerobes are more biologically active when the soil is unsaturated and drier, the anaerobes are more biologically active when the soil is wet, and soil switches back and forth from dry to wet frequently. Both types of microbe are important in terms of soil nutrient availability (soil nitrification and denitrification processes require alternating wet and dry soil conditions, for example).                                                                                                                                                                   
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023, 17:40 by Subversive_plot »

*

Enfield Glen

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Enfield
  • 206
  • Borough champion 12 times
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2023, 15:37 »
Same subject different weed, A young chap on our plot was making coffee from Dandelions, though a bit daft so googled it up, other search engines available, and low an behold its a real thing.

*

Yorkie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: North Yorkshire
  • 26460
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2023, 18:57 »
Same subject different weed, A young chap on our plot was making coffee from Dandelions, though a bit daft so googled it up, other search engines available, and low an behold its a real thing.

Indeed, and the French word for dandelion is pissenlit, which refers back to the plant's well-known diuretic qualities ...  :ohmy:
I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days all attack me at once...

*

coldandwindy

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hebrides, Scotland
  • 256
Re: Making use of perennial weeds.
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2023, 08:10 »
Same subject different weed, A young chap on our plot was making coffee from Dandelions, though a bit daft so googled it up, other search engines available, and low an behold its a real thing.
Dandelion wine is quite a thing!


xx
perennial weeds help

Started by lesley1322 on Grow Your Own

1 Replies
1154 Views
Last post March 02, 2010, 21:36
by sunshineband
xx
Weeds, Weeds and more weeds (oh and couch grass)

Started by meriad on Grow Your Own

5 Replies
2851 Views
Last post April 23, 2019, 17:10
by jaydig
xx
Perennial veg

Started by Candide on Grow Your Own

4 Replies
730 Views
Last post March 29, 2022, 17:51
by snowdrops
xx
Perennial veg bed

Started by Kate and her Ducks on Grow Your Own

9 Replies
2827 Views
Last post July 08, 2013, 22:47
by seaside
 

Page created in 1.07 seconds with 44 queries.

Powered by SMFPacks Social Login Mod
Powered by SMFPacks SEO Pro Mod |