[RICH_Chicken]

Hello fellow chickeners

I've started the 'hatch my eggs' trend and got an incubator etc, my question is when the chicks hatch do I have to vaccinate them? If so how to get hold of this? Is it Important? Or is this more the case if I had say 500 hens and not 20??

Cheers all

Rich

[GrannieAnnie]

I haven't bred chickens for a few years, but the vaccines were only available then in 1000 doses, I believe that they are now available in 500's, but not really viable for the smaller breeder.

I did vaccinate one lot of chicks, with water soluble vaccines one year, rather than pay out for vaccination equipment, but none of my customers were at all interested.

As long as your husbandry is nice and clean and the chicks are raised well, hopefully you will have lovely healthy hens.  Even vaccinated chickens can die of whatever, one of our members had a lot of trouble with vaccinated and non vaccinated chickens a few years back.

Also they say not to mix vaccinated and non vaccinated chickens together, but again I've had both. 

These are the 5 hens I have left now.  The brown hen is a vaccinated, commercially bred girl who will be 5 next month, and the 4 black ones I bred myself.  They are not vaccinated and will be 4 in June!

Hope this helps!

[Sassy]

Agree with Grannie Annie. Good housekeeping is paramount. On chicken farms where they continue to be kept unnaturally vaccines are necessary as bugs have a ready made breeding ground. At home in good conditions is best. Vaccines are not infallible anyway. 

[RICH_Chicken]

That's great thanks for advice guys

[barley]

I only keep vaccinated birds now  as we suffered Mareks Disease and lost all my birds 

my lady I buy from says the vaccine is so cheap  she uses what she needs at hatching time and disregards the rest

I would recommend vaccinated every time as I have seen the consequences of none vaccinated birds

here's her site if it helps http://www.wylyevalleychickens.co.uk/

[Beekissed]

I've never had a vaccinated chicken in the past 40 yrs and never had illness in any of the flocks either.  I also don't stress sanitation as other people see sanitation~bleaching out coops, biosecurity measures, cleaning out the feces every day, etc......the best way to keep chickens clean and healthy is to free range them on plenty of land so that soils are not over impacted by their presence. 

If one cannot do that, the next best thing is a cultured deep litter in the coop and run.  Barren, compacted runs that cannot absorb moisture, have too much nitrogen in the soil due to fecal loads and have no good habitat for beneficial bacteria and molds will grow unhealthy loads of pathogens and parasites.  Providing a deep litter that mimics a forest floor in this area can keep soils loose and draining well, will give the nitrogen some carbonaceous materials with which to bind, provides healthy soils that can harbor the beneficial microbial life that can keep the less beneficial microbes in check. 

Giving chicks a hunk of sod from where they will be living, right in their brooder from day one, can provide them exposure to the germs in their eventual environment at the right time in their lives~the first few weeks when their immune system can best create antibodies against these natural environmental microbes. 

The worst mistake most people make is to keep chicks in an inside brooder, all clean and separate from these germs until they are around 2 mo. old and then they turn them out on the soils....it's no coincidence that 2 mo. of age is when most backyard flocks contract coccidiosis, whether they have had medicated feeds or not.  They are totally unprepared and vulnerable to these germs because no one has developed their immune systems as they would have been if raised by a broody hen in their natural environment.  I've lived a long, long time now with chickens and have yet to see a single chick raised by a broody to have pasty bottom or any kind of illness.  One reason is that they are exposed to the mother's germs and have formed the correct antibodies for their environment. 

I don't care if I were to ever have a whole flock wiped out by an illness, I'd still not vaccinate or feed medicated feeds or even give meds of any kind.  If this were to happen it means I've failed in my flock care along the way by not building good immune systems, not culling the flock to remove birds that are not naturally hardy or are too old to lay, haven't chosen the correct breed/genetics, and not providing healthy habitat for their living.   At that time I'd go back to square one and work harder to remedy those things. 

[Sparkyrog]

what a refreshingly sensible outlook  unfortunately most people don't have the space needed for that.

[joyfull]

even with vaccines the birds can still develop the diseases. Mareks is one case - this vaccine once opened has to be used within an hour otherwise it is useless. We have had members on here who have lost their flocks of vaccinated birds to this awful disease, possibly because the vaccine was either out of date or been opened too long.
Another point is that we dont know how long the vaccines work for because the birds kept at poultry farms that are vaccinated are culled at 72 weeks old whereas some of us keep our birds for 8 years or more.
You don't have to free range to have healthy birds but can do as Beekissed said and have a cultured deep litter coop and run.

[barley]

bee kiss I keep my house keeping spotless , hoover and spray my coop weekly- deep litter and replenished regular - poops removed daily  and birds free range - infact they are spoilt rotton  only the best for my girls

I hear what you all say about Mareks disease but believe you me when you get it it is absolutely devastating and you would not ever question not having vaccinated chooks

I replaced my flock with 3 unvaccinated birds initially and within a month they all died of Mareks too 

my vet told me that anyone can get it any time as it carries on the wind and once you've had it it remains in the ground for up to 8 years - he advised to keep vaccinated birds from now on and since following his advice we have never had Mareks again

my current girls are ages between 2 years and 6 years old and all fully vaccinated 

I can only speak from my personal experience

 -

[Beekissed]

The fact that I've never had Marek's in my flocks, or any other illness, for that matter, for the last 40 yrs speaks of my methods as being tested by time and successful in prevention of disease.   

 If I ever got Marek's I'd be completely shocked and, no, I'd not rely on vaccinations even then....it's a crutch and doesn't replace good animal care.   My flocks have never had it....that's not merely luck of the draw.  It's because I do everything with intention, I cull with intention each year, study on what keeps animals naturally healthy and then provide those things.  Forty years of healthy flocks speaks, not of luck, but of the grace of God and good stewardship of His animals. 

 Cleaning, cleaning and cleaning doesn't ward off disease...trust me, as a nurse, one can sanitize too much.  The germs that establish most quickly in a sanitized environment are the harmful ones...they come first and grow the fastest.  If there isn't natural bacteria/yeast already established that are beneficial to the environment and can prevent the growth of harmful pathogens, the harmful bacteria go into overgrowth. 

When you kill everything, you leave a blank canvas for those that grow the most rapidly and grow best when other good bacteria don't inhibit them.  This is why overuse of broad spectrum antibiotics causes worse and harder to kill germs, and why using one even one time can cause a person to get a yeast infection immediately afterwards....all the good yeasts were killed by the antibiotic and so the harmful type went into overgrowth. 

That's one reason why I've never used hand sanitizer, in my personal life or in my nursing career.  Now they are finding out that it merely kills one's first line of defense and promotes germ transmission even more....it kills one's naturally occurring and healthy fauna on one's skin.   As a nurse I've found that germophobes are my most frequently ill patients and even co-workers who are constantly obsessed about germ transmission~and use hand sanitizer like it's going out of style~ are those who are constantly ill.

 

[New shoot]

40 years of happy, healthy chickens is a great record and your system obviously works very well for you 

I think the UK is just a lot more crowded and most of us have fairly modest gardens in areas of pretty high population density.  Add to that large populations of wild birds including feral town pigeons, who are just disease magnets.  I use deep litter in my big run, but I also use wormer and keep the coop and run as clean as I can.  I have been lucky not to experience a lot of sickness in my birds. 

Barley lives in the countryside and her birds do free range a lot, but she has still has had to deal with Mareks, which is a horrible disease.  I would be going with 100% vacinated birds as well if I were in her shoes 

[GrannieAnnie]

I know the title of this topic is Opinions on Chickens, but what RichChicken was actually asking was should he/she vaccinate their own chicks.

I was just trying to point out that it can be an expensive business vaccinating your own chicks, especially as many of them have to be injected.  They are not all water soluble like the 3 I tried that time.

Like Joyfull mentioned, most of them, like the mareks have a VERY short life once opened, so say you were incubating a dozen chicks every few days, you would have to buy fresh vaccines every time.

This subject is a bit of a minefield I'm afraid, and whichever way we go, it is a gamble.

Good luck with whatever you decide RC!

[Sassy]

Once you start to vaccinate you need to decide what for and where do you stop?

[barley]

The fact that I've never had Marek's in my flocks, or any other illness, for that matter, for the last 40 yrs speaks of my methods as being tested by time and successful in prevention of disease.   

That's a fantastic track record BK and I'm so glad it has been a success for you - you care very well for your birds

to this day I don't know how we got Mareks , my birds were all about 3 years old at the time , usually it's young birds that are susceptible to it , so we were completely shocked 

no one really knows how to stop the spread of disease - its a constant battle for mankind and beast alike , but back to vaccinated birds I personally will always keep vaccinated birds as I never want to see my birds go through that again 

so my advice to Rich is if you can afford to vaccinate or buy vaccinated birds it worked for me as I now have a healthy happy flock 99% of the time 

[GrannieAnnie]

If anyone is interested in vaccinating their flock, this is one of many articles they may find interesting!

http://www.chickenvet.co.uk/health-and-common-diseases/vaccination/index.aspx

and a list of some of the vaccines used by commercial breeders and rearers!

http://www.msd-animal-health.co.uk/Species_Pages/Poultry/Poultry_Vaccines.aspx

I can't find the vaccination plan that Joyfull did on here a few years back, but this one gives an idea of what should be done to cover as much as possible!

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/poultry/Syllabus/page16.htm