[Snap Dragon]

Thought I'd welcome in the New Year with a visit to the town clerk to see if she's made any progress with the 'abandoned' plots.....

It turns out that she has failed to add me to the waiting list so I don't know how many places I have lost!! :cry:

She also now tells me that the plot I have my eye on is promised to someone else on the list - funny she hasn't mentioned this before in our conversations!

She then proceeds to tell me that it will take her a year to evict anyone from their plots :shock: ... I have done a bit of digging (no pun intended) on the net and have found a PDF file by the DTLR calle 'A plotholders guide'. It states:

            The agreement will usually include provision for
the tenancy to be ended by either the plot holder
or the authority. If an allotment authority/
association wishes to end a tenancy it will need
to give the plot holder 12 months' notice
expiring on or before 6 April or after
29 September in any year.
The allotment authority may also give one month’s notice to quit if the rent remains unpaid or the tenant fails to comply
with the terms of tenancy.

As the first point of our tenancy agreements states 'The Allotment Garden must be kept in a clean, decent and good condition and properly cultivated'.... surely a plot that hasn't been used for a year+ is has failed to comply with the agreement can be used to enforce the 1 month rule?

Sorry to rant :oops:  but I just want to get things moving and will be back to visit the town clerk in 3 weeks and I want her to know I am serious (mind you she did say she would push me up the list so I think I have made my face known :!: ).

Have any of you come across the 1 month rule before or does everyone have to wait a year?!! :?:

[Aunt Sally]

I'm sure someone will be along tomorrow to give you some advice  

[jack russell]

Hi snap dragon,  you are right to kick up a stink and the best thing you can do is keep it up,   and go to the allotments as much as you can and talk to the other plot holders who will be equally peeved that the plot is spreading weed seeds etc.  i hope you get sorted with a plot,   come the turn of the year.  I was given mine in June last year leaving no growing time as it was abandoned for at least two or three years previous.  This was after making such a stink with the parish council who ru8n our site.  There is an old chap who does nothing at all with his plot except pay the rent as he is old and has alzheimer's(not sure of spelling) but they wont kick hi off although there is a waiting list as he has had the plot for a long time.  this to ME is all wrong.  USE IT OR LOSE IT. this would be the ideal how long will our parish show compassion to this chap 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, years.  its absurd

[WG.]

(mind you she did say she would push me up the list so I think I have made my face known :!: ).

This appears to be the key point.  All arguments concerning contractual detail and underlying legality are hogwash if this clerk is so willing to negate the whole reason maintaining a list, i.e. fairness to all.

My advice : if you want a plot, make sure your face fits as well as getting it known.

[Ruth Cross]

I had problems with contractual stuff when I first got my allotment, they had basically given me an outdated contract (it said I could have chickens when under the new contract I couldn't). I personally did some negotiating and got reduced rent for the first 12months.

I would say you probably have two options;

1) Really really push the contractually side of stuff, write letters ref the 1 month notice etc

or

2) Just be really persistent with the clerk about it, show your face alot, try to negotiate a bit.

I would say go for the second approach as option 1 may pee a few people off and you may find you stay at the bottom of the pile

[noshed]

I agree - show you're keen and be persistent. Our site sec sizes people up on whether or not they "look like a gardener" so it's worth speaking to the other plot holders. Make it so the line of least resistance for this clerk woman is to give you a plot.

[gobs]

SD, you have got the right paper work there, I think, the practical side of life is a lot different though.

People in charge do not have much other means to proceed at the end of the day than gentle persuasion, which does take time.

You need to find the right balance there, as even too much persistence can be counteractive.

Patience and good luck.

[sweet nasturtium]

(mind you she did say she would push me up the list so I think I have made my face known :!: ).

This appears to be the key point.  All arguments concerning contractual detail and underlying legality are hogwash if this clerk is so willing to negate the whole reason maintaining a list, i.e. fairness to all.

My advice : if you want a plot, make sure your face fits as well as getting it known.

I would also be careful about getting onto a plot where you don't get on with the committee.

Also, plots are often left empty because someone is ill.  I wouldn't want to be thought of as the "one that took old soandso's plot when he was in hospital for an operation".  

I'm not trying to put you off, but help you understand what really matters on an allotment site.

[upthetump]

I think a softly softly approach may help you. I can only relate my own experience in getting my plot. I had recently moved into my area and was keen for a plot, but it was like getting into a private members club. Some (not all) Allotment sec's and council clerks are like little dictators. Because they have the power, and they enjoy using it, the more you push them, the more they push back. Try a cuter line and as stated above get exisiting plot holders on your side. If you go head to head you may get nowhere. I just kept dropping hints such as, bit of a mess that one, I could take it over if no ones interested etc. "Werked fer me" as Munty would say but not for everyone, but I certainly wouldn't advocate winding them up. GOOD LUCK.

[David.]

The minimum 12 months notice is for terminating the tenancy, usually to use the land for other purposes. One month is for breach of tenancy conditions, but there are set periods over which the breaches have to occur beforehand. If the tenant has not vacated by the end of the notice period, possession may have to be sought through the courts. Read 'The Law of Allotments' by J.F. Garner (I have a copy) Chapter 6: Allotments Tenancies and Their Determination http://www.amazon.co.uk/Law-Allotments-J-F-Garner/dp/0721901433

But if your Town Council is anything some Parish Councils, it is probably just being over generous to the existing tenants as they do not want the aggravation of evictions, and if anything, will regard you knocking on the door telling them they are doing it wrong as the problem (and with that book I'm sure you could find loads of things they are doing wrong), not tenants who neither cultivate, nor hassle them. And when you eventually get your plot, may find it's the worst one on the site.

Not what should happen, but it does, and what then - The Local Government Ombudsman? Judicial Review? I became a Parish Councillor because I was appalled by the way I saw them running the Parish, but after serving a term on the council I didn't bother seeking re-election because I realised they were even worse than I originally suspected. But at least I was instrumental in ensuring their allotment tenancies were both reasonable and legal.

So basically, the posts above contain sound advice.

[Snap Dragon]

Thanks everyone for your advice....

I really don't have any intention of throwing the book at her (honest guv)... (I don't think she'd notice it in the mass of files, paperwork and lists she calls an office anyway!)... It don't think it would hurt to let her know that I'm keen enough to want an allotment to have done some homework. I worked for the police for long enough to know that running into someones office with all guns blazing will get you nowhere (at least in my office it didn't - a swift 'about turn and don't come back till you've found your manners sonny' usually worked!) I have been very nice to her - I promise.   There'll be no news reports of a crazy dragon holding a town clerk to ransom for a plot of weedy land..... although thinking about it.... hmmmm  

To be honest I think she is wearing so many hats on her head that she is just after a quiet life! Apparently she has given a list of scruffy plots to the allotment officer to check out so things could be on the move (fingers crossed).

I will keep chatting to the other plotholders, in particular the bloke next to my Mums plot, as he seems to know something about everything - he pointed my mum in the direction of a well kept plot that was being given up when the clerk had offered my Mum a small scale jungle!

I'll keep you informed

[Snap Dragon]

Our site sec sizes people up on whether or not they "look like a gardener".

Hey Noshed - some interesting images come to mind.... :shock:

We could start a whole new thread on 'what a gardener should look like' bet some of you techies could post some good ones :?:

[sweet nasturtium]

Go for it snapdragon, sounds like a good thread idea to me.