[SusieB]

I'm missing them already.  At least I know my chuck's died.  It must be hard, Ferretkeeper, having to keep looking just in case.  I must admit I still go and look for Vera now and again, incase they weren't her feathers.

It is interesting to read your thoughts on risking them free-ranging.  At the moment I am constantly mulling over how much freedom I will give my new girls, particularly in winter.  It is good to hear that you believe they need the freedom to roam, as that is the way my thinking is going.   

I think I am going to be pondering for a while.  Where do you draw the line on safety versus freedom?  What would the chickens choose (if they put some thought into it)?

[joyfull]

That is my way of thinking too, all of mine free range completely with 14 still roosting in the hedge and trees. I haven't seen a fox here within 5 miles and have lived here for 10 years. I have seen a mink though although I must say not for a couple of years. We do have stoats and weasels but never seen one in my garden. I have had 2 hens sitting on eggs in the field and down the side of the beck with 9 chicks hatching successfully this way (although I didn't want anymore chicks  ).

[hillfooter]

It is interesting to read your thoughts on risking them free-ranging.  At the moment I am constantly mulling over how much freedom I will give my new girls, particularly in winter.  It is good to hear that you believe they need the freedom to roam, as that is the way my thinking is going.   

I think I am going to be pondering for a while.  Where do you draw the line on safety versus freedom?  What would the chickens choose (if they put some thought into it)?

Good question Susie! You will almost certainly draw the line in favour of more freedom until one day Mr Fox drops by and helps himself to dinner.  Once that happens I'm affraid your chx  will be on his menu and he'll come back for more unless you protect them. 

I used to let mine free range over a half acre field with just hedges and no fox proof fences and had no problem for well over a year until one day in mid afternoon one was taken and another luckily escaped with the loss of her tail feathers.  Thinking it's a one off, I continued as normal but the next day mid morning another was taken so I kept them behind an electric net from them on.  As it's a 50m net and you can extend it as far as you want with additional nets, they still have plenty of room and I've never lost another one since.  Now I have 4 houses each with their own net which I move every 6 months to rest the ground and it works for me.  Electric nets aren't infallible and you need to manage them well to ensure they stay effective but unless you have a very bad fox problem they work well and are certainly worth considering as a good compromise between total freedom and good security.

HF

[SusieB]

Hillfooter you have worried me.  I have had chickens for 18 months till I lost my last one to a fox (the rest died due to illness).  I was careful to an extent - only let them out when I was around and checked on them regularly. 
I have three fox dens around my garden which is quite large but in a urban area.  The foxes have always known the chickens were there.  Are you saying the fox is going to be harder to keep away now he has got one?

I know you can't know what my fox is thinking!  I'm asking because I think knowing your enemy helps.  Were your losses in winter/spring? I can see myself penning them up in winter but would like to let them wander the whole garden in the summer.

[hillfooter]

Summer.  I think once they have broken the ice so to speak they are more likely to return.  Like every animal they do learn from their experiences.  I used to restrict my hens with a net then I stopped using the net and  extended their range to include the garden and quickly that extended into the adjacent paddock and there were no problems for 18months or so then the incidents I mentioned occured.  Almost certainly it was the same fox returning the next day.  

One thing I will say is that hens ranging in a field stand a better chance of evading being caught.  If a fox gets into a house or run they usually kill the lot whereas ranging they tend to take single chx purely for food.  If foxes kill excess to their needs they will usually bury them and return later.  When our menage was sand we often found pheasants wings sticking out after a wind had blown the sand surface away.

Urban foxes tend to be less shy of people and more active in the day than rural foxes.  We often see foxes but they generally make themselves scarce if they see us.  I also spray "fox deterent" after a few pints which I believe helps.
HF

[ehs284]

SusieB, yes, time for more protection; and asap. The next few months will see food getting more of a problem for urban foxes as councils catch up with Christmas waste piles, wildlife such as frogs has gone and pregnant vixens need more food. Foxes are intelligent enough to plan ahead and will observe topography and events to know escape routes, when people are about, when the chooks are let out and so on. Our neighbours have been (they thought) careful with fencing and watching, but have got it wrong all too often. Quickest would be an electric fence. The support poles are rubbish, but it will stay up to let you get sorted. You'll need a battery and charger. Local farm stores are probably best as you can get help and add-ons as you need. Problem is cost, but I think many here have decided it's all or nothing.
Rather more information than we needed there HF 

[hillfooter]

Quickest would be an electric fence. The support poles are rubbish, but it will stay up to let you get sorted. You'll need a battery and charger. Local farm stores are probably best as you can get help and add-ons as you need. Problem is cost, but I think many here have decided it's all or nothing.
Rather more information than we needed there HF 

I contibuted to a long thread on electric fencing earlier this year and have an outstanding committment to convert it to a sticky which I'm delinquent in not doing.  This is worth a read

 http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=56897.msg671351#msg671351

The following link describes a trial of the effectiveness of nets against foxes

http://www.agrisellex.co.uk/fox-fencing-trial-3165-0.html

There's also lots of other info on nets on the site if you search.

I've found Electric Fencing Direct, http://www.electricfencing.co.uk/poultry_01.asp from whom you can buy from online, are very good and give good advice.  Their Fox Busting Premium kit is very robust and being 1.22m high is one of the most secure is excellent but not so cheap.  The cheapest kits cost from £180 to £200 and you don't  usually need a battery in a garden situation as you can use a mains power 12V adapter in an outbuilding (garage for example) and run a low voltage 12V across the garden to the energiser which generates the high voltage pulses on the net.  All the components you need are included in a kit which the suppliers can advise about.  They are fairly easy to put up if you lay the net in straight runs and whenever you need to change direction us a tree stake to support the net insulator pole (see the thread).  The insulating posts particularly on the cheaper nets are not very strong and will only support the net vertically they can't take sideways tension which must be supported by the tree stakes.

The problem with nets in gardens is that it's difficult to find enough clear area to errect them and they create a no go area for people too.

HF

[Junie]

What has happened to me is just as HF said.

I lost 4 chooks last year in one go, we were in the garden having lunch while the chooks were in a field behind the barn.  The cries were really upsetting to hear and the fear in the rest of the chickens as they just ran in all directions was horrible.  We eventually rounded them all up and I had lost 4 including the main man.  We told one of our neighbours who called in Chasse who came over that afternoon , they didn't catch anything then but apparently did later.  No more problems for the rest of the year.
This year I have lost 4 also, one at a time, though and quite close to the house. I also had one attack in the wood, Smokey was badly cut all up her back, but she survived.  My cockerel became extremely over protective of the girls and started attacking me and my youngest son, so he had to go. 
I kept them in their run, and one lunchtime heard a cuffuffle in the henhouse to see a fox sitting about 2 metres from the wire!  It just stared at me and only ran when my JRT took chase.
I bought an electric fence and have had no more trouble, but I used to carry them to their pen everyday!
This summer I will attach the electric pen to their run and put in a little door to give them more space.
I managed to buy a solar powered fence on ebay, which was much cheaper than buying new!

Having seen the way the attacks affected the chickens, I am happy for them not to free range plus the fact that my son is totally against another cockerel, which I think they need for a little protection and to keep them in order!

I am going to give them some free roaming next year, probably for  few hours when I can be near them,but otherwise they are in their pen!