[Tosca]

Hello,

We have three hens who we bought at point of lay last march. They have all laid virtually every day since then right through the winter. In the last week or two one of them has started laying less frequently, and her eggs seem bigger, the shells thinner and one of the eggs was quite watery when cracked open. Today she had laid before i opened them up (at 7am) and the egg must have been stood on as it is all broken up in the nesting box. She does not appear to be ill, she is behaving normally, eating and drinking. They have layers mash, grit and oyster shell available all day and veg scraps as well.
All the hens were vaccinated when we bought them.
Can anyone advise me of whether she might be ill or any other problems i should look for please? These are my first hens so i just don't know what i ought to do now.
Thank you very much.

[joyfull]

my older hens lay very large thin shelled watery eggs (these are from my rescues) so are you sure of the age of this hen?

[hillfooter]

She may well be going into moult so keep your eye on her for signs of this or illness which will usually show itself as depression, standing inactice, neck withdrawn, droopy wings not eating.  Symptoms like sneezing, snick, coughing, rattley breathing nasal or occular discharge can indicate a respiratory infection.  Persistant dirty rear end can also be indicative of many infections.  

If she seems otherwise OK and has principally layers and not too much corn or scraps her nutrition should be OK.  No need and I certainly wouldn't try to boost her calcium with a supplement or add oystershell to her feed.  If she has oyster shell available and her compound feed will give all she needs.

Chx do stop laying to moult and for other reasons and they don't always transition cleanly so I wouldn't be too concerned provided there's no other signs of illness.

Can you tell us a little bit about these birds, breed any history of illness, laying performance, any changes in feed or housing recently and their source.
HF

[Tosca]

Thank you for the replies 

We bought all the hens together from SPR in Fontwell, west sussex. They told us they were pol, and they did take a few weeks to start laying so i assume they are all the same age but just going by what the store told me. They are Black Rhodes (black Rock x Rhode Island Red?). I haven't changed their feed or housing, and they haven't had any illness or anything before. I usually get at least two and more likely three eggs daily from the three of them until recently when Rose's eggs got thinner and larger. Also, she is the hen who lays the pale eggs, the other two lay brown eggs so i know it's her. Would wormimg them help? How often should they be wormed? They were done when we got them which is nearly a year ago now.
Thanks again.

[joyfull]

worming depends on how you keep the birds and if they are in a covered run or not. Mine free range and as such even though the ground is not bad they do come into contact with wild birds so I worm every three months (wild birds can be a source of worms). If they are in a covered run and this is moved regularly to fresh clean ground which has no birds on it you (highly unlikely as wild life gets every where) then you could just worm once a year. Most people worm their birds two or three times a year, so perhaps your birds need doing. Make sure you use flubenvet though as opposed to verm-x as flubenvet has been proven to work on all types of worms whereas verm-x is classed as an organic preventative with no proof that it works.

[hillfooter]

see this link on worming

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=70506.msg804751#msg804751

You need 1% Flubenvet
HF

[Tosca]

Hi again, my dh has bought some flubenvet for the hens so we are going to stary worming them today, but i'm still concerned about Rose. She has layed eggs with no shells today and yesterday.
Anyone know what that means please?

[hillfooter]

Hi again, my dh has bought some flubenvet for the hens so we are going to stary worming them today, but i'm still concerned about Rose. She has layed eggs with no shells today and yesterday.
Anyone know what that means please?

Hmmm sounds like something's not going right with her reproductive system.  Either she's not secreting the calcium shell or the eggs moving through the system too quickly to deposit it.  Could be a deficiency of calcium but as her nutrition is OK she should be getting the calcium so more likely there's something going wrong with her ability to absorb it.  Vitamin D is needed to absorb calcium so that could be the problem.  Vit D3 is the best for birds and I believe cod liver oil can supply this (Vit D is stored in the liver).  Alternatively use a multivit drink with Vit D.  Egg yolks are another source and the body can manufacture Vit D under exposure to sunlight.  Oily fish are also said to be able to supply Vit D.

Vitamin deficiency can be caused by out of date feed check the use by date.  

Mycotoxins in feed (particularly wheat) can cause vitamin deficiency too.  Moulds can produce mycotoxins which adversely affect egg production and general health. They can interfere with the absorption or metabolism of certain nutrients, depending on the particular mycotoxin. Apparent calcium and/or vitamin D3 deficiencies can occur when mycotoxin contaminated feeds are given to laying hens so make sure your feed isn't mouldy.  In addition, some have hormonal effects which can cause a decline in egg production. The major mycotoxin of concern with corn is aflatoxin, produced by the mould Aspergillus flavus. The mould infects corn both in the field and in storage. Aflatoxin fluoresces under ultraviolet light so can easily be checked for.  Any feed which becomes wet in storage should be discarded.

I personally wouldn't increase calcium at this time without having tried the vits first as an overdose can cause problems too.

Fresh water is a key requirement so make sure they always have a clean supply each day.
HF

[Tosca]

Thank you so much, i didn't know any of that. Our feed is kept indoors, but the feeder in the garden is always damp, our garden is soaking wet mud ( it also smells really bad) and the hens throw the food all over the place, so any that they peck up from the ground could have been there a while and be mouldy? Could this have caused the problem?  I'll get some vit drink tomorrow and have changed their food today and cleaned up as much as i can of the spilled food. How do other people keep their food dry? I think i must be doing something fundamentally wrong somewhere as my hens spill more than they eat and the food ends up everywhere!
I'm so glad i posted, i can't thank you enough for the replies 

Not sure if this is relevant, but our garden is shallow earth over concrete (it was slabbed but the landlord removed the slabs to turf and then found the concrete so abandoned it). It doesn't drain at all and ends up an icky slurry when it rains - so, if the hens throw food around into it and then peck it up days later it could make them sick right? I'm really worried now 

[rachelr]

I had a similar problem with my feed getting wet and until I can convince my OH to build me a shelter for the food I have propped my garden umbrella up and put the feeders under it. Also bring them in each night so they dont get damp over night. I was a little under par for a few weeks and forgot to bring the feed in and they soon became poorly.

[hillfooter]

See the following link which covers the topic of falling egg production. Some of the factors aren't relevant to your situation so don't become concerned I think the factors I've include above are the most likely causes though it could just be a passing phase too.

 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps029#TABLE_2

You should keep your food under cover in a covered run or make a shelter with a corrigated roof board.  Use a suspended gravity feeder (level with their backs to discourage rodents and fouling) and if you use mash consider changing to layers pellets.  If you do this it will be essential to do it gradually by increasing the proportion of pellets to mash over time.  Mash is intended to be fed as ration in troughs so doen't keep well in gravity dispensers.  When you fill a dispenser tip out any old dusty feed into the bin.

Under the suspended feeder use dry wood chips or composed shreddings of non-toxic trees and shrubs (no Yew).  On top of this lay slatted duck boards for them to walk on.  Old square matrix trellis is good to.  This will form a dry mat.  Don't scatter corn or other feed on your wet smelly ground.

Hope this helps.
HF

[Tosca]

A million thank you's, i'm going to do what you've suggested tomorrow and hope for an improvement soon - there is so much to learn 

[gibbo]

I use the green base food dispenser, which you can get rain lids for, this helps but still i put it under a little rain shelter i built for the hens.  My ground also gets quite muddy and the grass has all but gone, but i still rake and brush over every fortnight or so.  This really helps and stops it getting smelly.  You will find you own little ways and you will also notice you are always improving, and making modifications!  I was doing more modifications today!!

[Tosca]

Just wanted to say thank you, after implementing all your fab advice my hen has laid normal, perfect eggs for the last two days 
Thank you all so much!!!