[Paulj]

I don't want to offend any traditionalists, but that's not me at all.  As mentioned in other posts I'm a novice allotmenteer, but have a background in design (which I don't get to exercise enough in my job as that's marketing!), so I've been thinking about my plot design and would like to do something a little different (at least it would be compared to anything else on our site).

Our plot is small by many peoples standards, but quite adequate for us - 12m x 3m.  Many of the allotments in our site are larger and might for instance dedicate a plot size of 9m square to carrots or leeks or onions.  We don't want that much of anything though as we wouldn't eat it all.

Instead I would like to do something more creative with my layout and have come up with this using the Suttons planner:



I'll be using some wooden veg boxes to grow some of the salad veg in, and am looking for other more creative ideas too, but need to esablish if this will work as it is.

Something I am sceptical about from the planner is the quantities it suggest I can plant in the rows I have created (full details of the plan are here, including quantities: http://gardenplanner.suttons.co.uk/garden-plan.aspx?p=194586.  For instance, it suggests that in a space of 2.3m (single row) I could have 23 carrots, or in a space of 0.8m x 1.1m I could have 35 Onion plants.  Does this sound right?

For most of the veg I will stagger the planting of each type of a few weeks to ensure they can be harvested over a few weeks.

Extra info:
The sun rises from the bottom of the image and sets at the top, so it was suggested to put my Raspberries to the far right hand side as they would not shade anything else.  Hence I have also put the beans and sweetcorn plants in this area too, and tried to allow some decent spacing between the rows. Should there be more spacing between these plants, or even between some of the other plants in general?

Where possible I have used the companion planting information on the planner, but I presume I have screwed up in terms of suiting to a rotation plan of any description?

[AnneB]

A few thoughts:

I wouldn't try growing aubergines outside in Nottingham - yields will be low, if you get anything at all.

There seem to be a lot of radishes in your plot - will you eat that many?  They are best succession sowed in a small patch.  You can't eat 100 in the same week.

You ought to grow sweetcorn in blocks, germination is haphazard and patchy if you grow in rows.

There are some easily grown crops that taste so good grown yourself that unless you don't like them I would consider - tomatoes, peas, potatoes and cabbage come to mind.

You should try and rotate your crops - so you don't grow the same thing in the same patch every year or it encourages disease.   Your unusual shapes might make that more difficult.

Look at what your neighbours do - you will find that they will know what works in your location.

Good luck with your plot.
 

[gavinjconway]

I reckon you would be better to do rows like a cottage garden... yours looks like a lot of bits and pieces and lots of blank spaces... just my opinion as it makes easier weeding, digging watering etc. One row of veg x 3mt long gives a lot...  Block of sweetcorn yes..

[Trillium]

Aubergines might work for you if you grow them in a raised bed and build a high, clear enclosure cover for it, sort of a lift up greenhouse, but out of some sort of PVC or double poly sheeting.

[Paulj]

Ok, so my original design started much more like this with rows as you suggest gavinjconway - most rows are about 2.6m in length:


I've modified it slightly to remove the aubergine (thanks for the idea Trillium - but I might just try them in my garden first where I do have an enclosure that I could do exactly that with), and put the sweetcorn into a block - is that enough of a block?

I plan on succession planting lots of the veg on the plot AnneB, otherwise we simply would not use it all.

I will also admit that this layout has not had any rotation theory applied either, but I will look into that today.

[Paulj]

Oh and AnneB - thanks for the suggestion of other veg - reasons for not including some of those are fussy eaters, and when I first started to ask questions on here, people suggested no potatoes as we only have a small space.    This is the start of ridding ourselves of being fussy eaters!

[Yorkie]

Lots of good comments on here; your first plan was lovely but did waste quite a lot of space and you'd have forever been cursing as you had to step over plants to get anywhere!

I think you will find that you don't need as much space for all the onions as you've allowed for the rows shown - or can get more of them in than shown.  They only need to be spaced about 8" (20cm) apart.

Personally I'd swap the courgette and squash over so that the squash can ramble around the edges of the plot - but that really is personal preference.

There is scope for further refinement, and it's something I've not got sorted in my own mind properly on my plot.

Leeks, garlic and parsnips all overwinter in one way or another, albeit with different planting and harvesting times.  I try to keep them together so that they don't break up the rest of the plot, particularly when winter digging etc.

The other comment I'd make is that carrots and parsnips don't like manure as it often causes them to fork.  If you plan on adding manure, it's easier to not manure their area if they are together.

But these are relatively minor refinements; you've done a decent job.

[Paulj]

Thanks Yorkie - some good things for me to think about.

As an aside, should I prepare the trellises for the beans now or should I wait until spring?  I have some materials that could be used for them so it is easily something I could get out of the way.

If so, what heights should I prepare for?  We'll have runner beans, french beans, mange tout and peas.

And I know when I first started following this forum, people suggested it was too early to start planting onions, garlic and shallots, but is that something else I can do now?

[mumofstig]

You can put up your bean trellis if you fancy, no probs......one job done.
6ft for runners and climbing french beans, the height of your peas very much depends on the varietie you choose, some grow tall and some only a couple of feet, so decide which ones to grow first

You can grow overwintering onions, which are ready a month or so before the spring planted ones, but they don't store quite as well. With your smaller quantities this is probably not a problem, so if you're keen to get growing - they might be a good option

[Babstreefern]

First of all, will you eat what you grow?  In my first year of growing, I was all excited, and planted anything and everything, including lettuce (so what about lettuce you may ask), well I grew 12 in a row at one time - you cannot possibly eat that many before they rot.  So you need to stagger them over the summer, as you can't freeze, cook or do much with it (although lovely with cheese on butties ).  Also you definitely need crop rotation - brassicas will get club root.  Onions get diseased (can't grow in that bed for at least 8 years).  Aubergines only grow in greenhouses (and not very well at that - I tried them).  But don't be put off, try your way - and come back next year and tell us how it went - the thing with gardening, you can experiment, and if it works, get the champers out, but if it doesn't try something else

[gavinjconway]

Hi Paul - your new design is a much bettrer useage of space.. Just dont get carried away with growing too many of each item - like me!! Grow, eat and enjoy. That's what an allotment is all about. I also love designing and changing and changing and changing things around... Once it is finalsed I'll print off and use as a guide... it will always change again a bit on the plot!!  Take in all the other comments about different veg and use to suit yourself. And as I said - have fun..

I've just been given the other half of my plot.... so I now have a full one and can now get started again. I wass waiting for a re-allocation so stopped clearing mine as there was a chance of a better mint comdition one... but it failed to be given out!!

So now have 20mt x 10 mt growable space... gotta get stuck in.

[compostqueen]

I think a good dose of planning, especially when the weather's vile, is a good idea    You could gain some good knowledge of plants in a pint pot using the square foot approach and much has been written on this subject.  I like the RHS Harlow Carr information and it gives detailed information about what plants best lend themselves to being grown in confined spaces

A very detailed work planting plans, but very easily understood and available from the Library is Joy Larkcom's Veg growers handbook. It's fab 

I don't grow veg in long rows either, and found Joy L's book Creative Vegetable Gardening a wonderful read. From what you're trying to achieve I think you'd enjoy it   

I think you'll find though that planning is one thing but actually doing it on the plot, with so many variables, will alter your plans in one way or another, but that's how you learn

Good luck with it all 

[DigIt]

Looking at some of the spacings for your crops, I, personally think that you could get more in. A lot depends on how many people you are going to feed, in so much as if there is just one of you, do you really want a huge onion or whatever.

I used to plant onions very close because there was only me to eat them and a large onion would be wasted. By close, I mean about 3in apart and always had success that was when I was just down the road from you in Long Eaton.

I think 60-90cm for raspberries excessive, I would say nearer 45cm (RHS recommendation). Mine actually are a bit closer than that and yields do not appeared to be impaired.
Leeks 20 cm apart, mine are lucky to get 6/7cm apart.

But this is only my personal preference and I always tend to try and squeeze as much as poss out of the space that I have.

[sunshineband]

Just catching up with your thread Pual and have a couple of desing aspects for you to think about before you settle on something.

1. How easy is is to walk about/push a barrow round your plot when the ground is wet? You don't want to have insuffcient safe walking underfoot through out the year

2. You mentioned you are going now to think about crop rotation. If you are goin to have a four year plan (or three or which ever you choose) it is help ful to have those areas similar in size, as then you don't end up trying to squeeze in potatoes to beds that previously had carrots, and that bed was a small one as you didn't need many carrots.

If you are going to use rows, it makes sense to plant the crops in the order they will rotate: saves a whole lot of fiddling around trying to remember what comes next and where.

Just my opinions, but they are based on what we didn't think of staight away and then needed to sort out 

Hope this helps 

[mumofstig]

One problem with closer spacing, as Digit suggests is that you need to do a good bit of hand-weeding, whereas wider spacing lets you use a hoe.

So just try a few things and you get to know what's right for you