[Growster...]

Thanks Growster, but lowering soil PH is a lot more difficult than raising it, and I'm not sure teabags and luck alone will deliver what is required in this particular case.

That's true Jay, of course, and I've just realised why they possibly thrived before we transplanted them.

They were originally in a bed where we kept a layer of bark chips constantly mulching the area, and I believe they're good at lowering PH.

I may be wrong here...

[lacewing]

Could I slip in here and ask a question. I have six blueberrys to plant and  trying to avoid the cost of buying large amounts of ericaceous compost. Could I mix leaf mould, horse manure and a small amount of compost?
I have a  good stock of leaf mould and the horse manure, with a mix of straw, has been rotting down for over a year.   

[JayG]

With my soil being sandy and poor in nutrients without any additions I assumed that it was "naturally" a bit on the acid side, so I was quite surprised to find that the pH had crept back up to neutral over the years (must have some lime in it if nothing else!)

Apparently most organic materials become acidic to varying degrees as they rot down because organic acids are produced in the process, but these are in turn broken down as the process nears completion. Sphagnum peat moss appears to be an exception and is very acidic, mainly because it is actually only partially decomposed.

Assuming that is the case, materials like bark chips and pine needles should help lower the pH as they decompose, whereas in theory the fully rotted mixture that Lacewing is proposing is likely to be nearly neutral.

I would suggest Lacewing tests the pH of his/her mixture (probably need more than one sample as it's not likely to be a homogeneous blend) and then decide what to do.

The problem of course is that a soil containing calcium will continue to defy your best efforts at achieving somewhere around pH5, which doesn't sound that much different from 7 but is actually very difficult to achieve in practice.

I suppose it's some sort of consolation that mine have survived and fruited quite well in near-neutral conditions for somewhere between 0 and 5 years.
I'll let you know whether I eventually manage to nudge the pH lower over the coming months and get them to grow a bit more enthusiastically.

[Growster...]

I've been eying a bottle of liquid ericaceous feed in our local GC.

If the transplanted bushes don't thrive, they may well get a squirt of that at some stage, but I'll give them a year to see what happens first!

[strangerachael]

You could plant them in ericaceous compost in containers, then sink the containers into the ground and cover the tops with mulch (gravel, slates, bark chips etc) to keep the moisture in. Best of both worlds.

[Growster...]

You could plant them in ericaceous compost in containers, then sink the containers into the ground and cover the tops with mulch (gravel, slates, bark chips etc) to keep the moisture in. Best of both worlds.

Like that idea Rachael. I really cannot remember what sort of root-ball ours had when we moved them, but they were in the open, so might have been a bit straggly...

Jay, that's an interesting point you make about rising PH as well, as I always thought that soil tends to turn more acid as time goes by and assuming no lime of course.

[JayG]

You could plant them in ericaceous compost in containers, then sink the containers into the ground and cover the tops with mulch (gravel, slates, bark chips etc) to keep the moisture in. Best of both worlds.

Like that idea Rachael. I really cannot remember what sort of root-ball ours had when we moved them, but they were in the open, so might have been a bit straggly...

They are pretty shallow-rooted so mulching is a good idea because they hate being dry nearly as much as being waterlogged ( ), although the downside of that is they don't form a nice compact rootball so a good-sized container is needed to avoid restricting them.

Jay, that's an interesting point you make about rising PH as well, as I always thought that soil tends to turn more acid as time goes by and assuming no lime of course.

I'm sure that's usually the case Growster (unless you are trying to force a lower pH on a soil which still contains natural pH buffers which will keep trying to raise it again until it eventually runs out of lime.)  

[sunshineband]

I've started keeping a pot in the kitchen to throw all my old coffee grounds and teabags into, which I intend to throw in my blueberry bed along with the ericaceous compost - thinking I'll also put a couple of raspberry canes in there as Alan Titchmarsh reckons they like acidic soils too - does that sound about right?

Although raspberries don't mind acidic conditions, they are not really suitable for growing right next to your blueberries. Raspberries throw up lots of new shoot every year, often a bot away from the original root and so might well swamp your blueberries.

[Trillium]

You can say that again, Sunny. I gave my raspberries quite a bit of space from my red currants and now have raspberry shoots all through the currant row  Have to do a mega cleanout this year.

[Growster...]

This is an interesting discussion Jay!

I've just unearthed some old book cuttings I saved years ago, and believe it or not, the first page talks about PH required by each veg. It doesn't mention blueberries, and that may well be because they weren't really a UK crop when it was written!

I didn't realise that spuds seem to want a PH of as low as 5, (yes, I know they're lime haters, but 5 is pretty low), whereas onions, carrots etc want 6.5 - 7.5.

If you'd like to see a scanned copy of the pages, by all means PM me, but I reckon from your experience that you probably know all this already - ;0)

Thanks for keeping this thread open too, I hope it helps the original question, and I'm not hi-jacking it...

[JayG]

Don't see any hi-jacking Growster, but I do have a funny feeling the audience for this thread might be down to about two by now! 

In many ways I grow things just for the pleasure it gives me, but I also love knowing how things "work", and Chemistry was always my favourite subject - sometimes I think it would be a good idea to borrow "Mumofstig's" signature but she might well cry "foul"!   

[Growster...]

"Mumofstig's" signature but she might well cry "foul"! "

Not sure if Mum keeps chooks Jay...;0)

[sunshineband]

"Mumofstig's" signature but she might well cry "foul"! "

Not sure if Mum keeps chooks Jay...;0)

You norty boyz 
 
and you are not alone in wanting to dig deep to understand how 'it all werks'. It is part of the charm of growing imho

Soil pH affects optimum plant health, including which weeds grow best too or which diseases flourish, and although many would say they don't bother 'with all that stuff', spreading lime for brassicas continues to be a received wisdom with a chemist's backbone.

Only a short step from there to asking the queston 'why?'

[Growster...]

Yer roight KC!

'Why'?

[sunshineband]

Yer roight KC!

'Why'?

Oi Dunno!