[newChickenMummy]

Hi everyone 

We have 6 girls in total, 3 of which are relatively new to us. Putting them all together has been a right nightmare we have been doing in slowly over a period of a couple of months firstly keeping them separate but they even fought through the wire. We did evening sessions where we put them all together for a couple of hours using treats to discourage any bullying and also spraying the bully with water, picking them up etc.

Then we moved them all into the same run but they kept their separate coops but in the end the new ones started going into the old girls coop anyway so their coop has become pretty much redundant but unfortunately the bullying has continued.

I have tried all sorts but it doesn't stop and one of the old girls is the worst by far so I am considering separating her.

Anyway 2 of the new girls just avoid the old girls grabbing food and water (we have several drinkers/feeders dotted around) when they can but 1 of them has never integrated even when we first got her she would sit out of the way scared. Eventually after hand feeding her she came out of her shell and things seemed to get better for a while but the last few weeks the bullying has got bad again and she has retreated to the coop most days for near enough the whole day. I have been putting food and water in there but she hasn't really been eating or drinking very much and has lost a lot of weight. It wasn't until this morning that I noticed how bad things had got when I picked her up and she is as light as a feather. She has now stopped eating completely and looks so weak she just stands there.

I took her indoors and put her in a box in the kitchen hand feeding her some egg, cucumber, tomato, spinach and pellets but she was only partially interested and didn't want to know the egg at all. She was drinking however which I took to be a good sign. As I had to come to work I made up the other coop for her which has a small run attached and shut the door so the others can't get to her but she just went straight up the ramp and sat in the nesting box. I put the food and water in there for her but she didn't seem interested when I put it in front of her face.

I really feel like she has given up, I feel so guilty that I didn't notice how bad things had got but I guess I felt that I would make things worse by keep interfering.

Any ideas on what else I can do to help her to start eating again? I was going to buy some fishy cat food for her but I'm not convinced she will eat it.

Oh and she has been de-liced, wormed etc. but none of the new girls have laid an egg since being with us (one of them will occaisionally lay a softie) which is why the old owners wanted to get rid of them. They are approx 2.5 years old.

Cheers
Liz x

[joyfull]

for the bullies you could fit beak clips - these will at least stop them plucking any feathers or pecking the others combs etc. Try removing the bullies into another area for a few weeks so the new hens get used to the area being their own. You could make up the electrolyte drink that Hillfooter has written about somewhere on here and also try making the feed into a mash or slurry - the new girl may want to eat this.
After a few weeks you could then try introducing the old girls back but stay on hand with purple spray in case any blood is drawn.
Make sure there are plenty of feeders and drinkers plus lots of hiding places so they can escape from each other 

[big eddie]

Hi. Have you considered that the hen being picked on has something wrong with her that you may not know about? Hens can be terribly cruel & will pick on any other hen that shows signs of weakness in some way. It may be that the illness is causing her to be bullied & it's not the bullying that is causing the loss of appetite etc. It can be awfully difficult to diagnose illnesses in hens - even alot of vets struggle.

[newChickenMummy]

Thanks joyfull, I'm not sure about the beak clips, doesn't this restrict their eating? To be honest not much blood seems to be drawn its just constant chasing and pecking behind the neck and holding down, 2 sometimes 3 on 1 and stopping them from eating/drinking. I've read about some people saying their chickens eyes have been pecked out! Its really nothing that severe and thats why we decided to put them all together, I thought they would sort it out in time. It would be ok if this girl (Doris) would fight back at least but she just hides, always has done since we've had her yet she is above the other 2 new girls in the pecking order.

I will look for that electrolyte drink thank you.

Thanks big eddie I have considered that she could be ill but has shown no signs of illness before the weight loss started other than being very shy although I know they hide illness very well. The people that had them before didn't care for them at all so it might well be the case that they have something but I honestly just thought she was depressed (does that sound silly, can chickens get depressed?!)

I just had her out on the lawn for the last couple of hours feeding her mashed pellets and cooked potato peelings which she seemed to like, she's eaten a fair amount and was pecking around a bit although very slowly. She even sat with her tail raised which she hasn't been of late. She does have a terrible bottom, stuck with green poo and shavings from the coop where she has just been sitting in the nesting box and when she goes its just a small amount of yellowish liquid. I am presuming this is due to the fact she hasn't been eating as a couple of her poos in the coop where very watery with bits in. I was going to give her a warm bath tomorrow if she's picked up as I'm worried flies will start to land on her bottom.

I will try moving the girls around thats a good idea, do I still keep them all in the same coop? Also what do I do with Doris tonight? Usually she sleeps with the others but should I leave her separated? I just worry they will pick on her in the morning as I often go out to find them fighting before I've opened their pop hole and she just doesn't have the strength to be picked on right now.

What do you do with the purple spray? Does this stop them pecking each other or just stop pulling feathers?

[kegs]

The gentian violet is an antiseptic for if blood is drawn (I always keep a bottle handy). 
It's in the link below as well as some anti pecking products.

http://www.happychicks.co.uk/mall/departmentpage.cfm/Happychicksshop/_291401/1/Anti%2520Pecking%2520for%2520poultry

There's a great pic of a beak bit on the Omlet site:
http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22584

Here's the recipe for the Electrolyte
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=80119.msg900901#msg900901

And last but not least, Aunt Sally's poo pics just for reference.
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=17568.0

[orchardlady]

I have been fortunate not to have ever really had to keep chickens in a contained area for any real length of time as I've been able to free range my birds. However I think that so very often the problem with bullying is the fact that the bullied bird simply cannot get away from the bullies. There are several courses of action you can take.

1. Re home this poor bullied bird to a place that hopefully she can be higher up in the pecking order, so probably with a smaller breed as companions.

2. Find younger and smaller companions for her and keep them separate from your now established flock.

3. Keep her separate and build her up to being fit. Keep her in her own ark with plenty of view of the rest of your flock. She then becomes your pet rather than your pet/egg layer.

4. Cull her.

A word of caution. Even when I've had broodie hens that have raised their chicks in full view of the rest of the flock but within the safely of a very large cage, once the broodie has decided she no longer wants to care for her chicks and return to the main flock there can be quite a bit of fighting as she needs to re establish her position in the order of the flock.

I know the options I've offered are not ideal but you may find that a compromise is the only way forward for you sad little bird.

Orchardlady.

[newChickenMummy]

Hi, sorry I haven't replied sooner. Doris hasn't got any better, unfortunately I think its just a matter of time 

Kegs - many thanks for these links, very helpful.

Orchardlady - thanks for your post but I think its too late for a compromise. We already took her from someone else who didn't want her and was going to cull her as she doesn't lay so she is a pet as are all my girls. Before taking them on I did try and find someone else who would take them as I was worried about integrating them with our existing girls but couldn't find anyone so rightly or wrongly rather than them being killed we took them.

I should probably point out she isn't the only hen being bullied, all the new girls are being bullied by the old girls but not severely there is no blood being drawn. She isn't picked on as much as the other two either but she just doesn't seem to be able to handle it as well as they do (I don't know if this is an indication of an existing illness before we got her). She is top of the pecking order out of the 3 new girls and bigger than them. They have another coop to retreat to as well as bushes, trees etc. and several food/water bowls dotted around. So she has just been hiding in the coop and not coming out to eat/drink.

Since I noticed that she hasn't been eating we have kept her separate in another coop and run with mesh separating her from the others and been giving her fishy cat food (amongst other things) to try and build her up but I don't think she's been eating anywhere near enough to get better. She won't eat on her own only when we are there pushing her to eat, she hardly drinks anything now, the only way we can get water into her is by dripping it onto her beak.

I just feel so guilty I should have noticed earlier but she's so fluffy I just didn't realise how thin she'd gotten. I should have done better for her 

[freckledbeck]

Don't feel guilty, you obviously care for your hens very much and to be honest all chickens are bullies! It's in their nature, hence 'pecking order'!
Chickens are prey, so they often don't show any sign of illness until they are very ill, so maybe your hen has been unwell for a while, which has made the bullying worse.
It does sound as though she is better off being kept seperated from the others and if she continues to seem poorly, possibly it would be kinder to put her to sleep?
Don't beat yourself up over this though, you took on some 'older' hens (you probably don't even know their true age?) and have given them a lovely end to their lives.

[newChickenMummy]

Thanks freckledbeck, I guess I just didn't realise how nasty they could be. I don't think I will ever integrate any new hens in future it has been such a nightmare!

I am starting to think that too, she's always been very shy and detached from the group but the fact that she was top of the pecking order in her group I guess I just thought she was a bit moody! Maybe she was trying to overcompensate. Thinking about things now it does make sense but other than her dry pale comb she looks fine, her coat is so plush and thick. I might ring the vets tomorrow, I should have done before I guess but I just thought she needed feeding up. Will see how much it costs to have her put to sleep

They are apparently 2.5 but we don't think thats right, they look older. The previous owner doesn't care or have a clue so its likely he just said that.

[newChickenMummy]

Doris was put to sleep this afternoon I went to wash her bottom and discovered loads of maggots inside her. I can't believe she was still alive, she must have been in so much pain. The vet said she'd had a prolapse. I feel so bad I didn't even think to check her for anything like that   its a steep learning curve.

I'm glad she's no longer suffering at least.

Thanks all for your advice x

[joyfull]

so sorry, RIP Doris xx

[freckledbeck]

Awwwwww Liz, you did all you could x

[newChickenMummy]

Thanks guys, after looking for prolapse on the internet it seems to be a more common occurence than I thought. I'm now concerned about one of the other new girls as she lays soft eggs every day and the vet said this can cause a prolapse, we checked them all over when we got back last night and all ok but I think I shall make sure I have a good check of their vents regularly.

Not really sure what I can do to harden her eggs up a bit as she has access to grit/oyster shell etc. and we give them spinach/greens most days. I've heard of limestone flour being good for calcium deficiency but I don't want to give her too much. Its odd because none of the new girls have ever laid properly since we had them.