[Lost in France]

Hello everyone, not been on the Forum for a while but it's the same black silkie girl again who's giving me concerns! Wilma has had canker in her moth on and off for months now and we've tried various drugs to get rid of it, currently she's on a course of 5 days Spartix for pigeons. I've read between 3-5 days are needed for a hen so thought as she keeps getting it, 5 days would be better. We're on day 4 today and the canker is still evident in her mouth but this morning she had lots of fresh blood on her underside and there was lots in the henhouse too. I washed her off but have found no wound yet the blood was red and fresh. Her vent is sound and clean and she's wormed regularly with Flubenvet. She's had a spray of Cothivert around her rear end to ensure no flies or the other hens get a whiff and attack. She mooching about the run but not eating. She follows the flock today whereas yesterday she spent lots of time in the henhouse.

She's having yogart and cider vinegar in the water. The henhouse is cleaned thoroughly twice a week, sprayed with poultry shield and left to air before clean shavings go in. The water dishes etc are also kept spotless. I have seperated her previously but she mopes on her own even if she can see her pals. The cockeril and the other 3 girls are fine.

We don't want tohave to dispatch her as she a cutie but feel that if we can't get rid of this once and for all, it's miserable for her to keep having it return and then there's all the medicating as well.

Has anyone got any ideas  if the Spartrix doesn't do it plus where could the blood be from?

Judi

[joyfull]

is it sprayed around on the walls or on the floor like her dropppings?

[bantam novice]

Hello Judi,
I haven't any advice, I'm afraid, just wanted to wish you luck with Wilma.

[Lost in France]

Thanks for replies. No, the "blood" was just on the floor and not with droppings which was curious too! I've been so puzzled by this mornings findings it set me thinking...I picked some raspberries last night and threw a few in for the girls...could someone have taken one into the henhouse, Wilma squashed it and got covered...mmm? The colour was vivid and I assumed blood but ...maybe...!! Trouble is, I scrubbed out the henhouse and washed Wilma so the evidence is gone now...anyway...how would I have checked...taste it...yuk!! Wilma has had her Spartex, just one more to go! She's been out, eaten some yogart and a little cheese but not interested in anything else.

Hopefully my hunch about the "blood"will be right and Wilma soon will be too!

Judi

[hillfooter]

Has a vet diagnosed canker and are you sure this isn't some other disease like wet pox  Spartex should be effective against canker.  What treatments have you tried?
HF

[Lost in France]

Hi Hillfooter,

Pretty sure it's canker as it matches exactly the photos I've seen with the yellow stuff in her mouth. Whilst our vet is greast with our other animals, the vets here aren't really into treating poultry...just cull. However, I did take with the last episode and he gave antibiotics and gently cleaned her mouth but sadly the effects were short-lived. Apart from the presentation of the disease, we have a large flock of free-flying doves who attract the local pigeons so quite likely they've brought it as it is common in pigeons.

Initially I tried other "izoles" that I had for other animals, as getting treatments here is not easy. Panacur certainly helped so I think it's one of these medications that's needed so I used it a couple of times. Guided by the vet we try to gently remove the worst of the stuff to help her eat and breath better and this does seem to help but I have read that you shouldn't do this...and elsewhere that you should!

[joyfull]

the yellow stuff could also be vent gleet (thrush) which can be in the mouth. If this is the case she will need something like nystatin or canesten.

[hillfooter]

If getting treatments is tricky I do have somewhere  a copper sulphate and vinigar treatment I'll look out for canker which you can mix yourself.  I can't vouch for this though as I've never met this disease.

The symptoms do seem similar to your birds which had thrust Joyful I remember you mentioned a while back.   The pigeon connection seems indicative of canker though.
HF

[Lost in France]

Thanks Hillfooter, I can probably get copper sulphate as it has other uses so don't have to get it through the vet!  I send for what I can on the Internet but obviously can't get any prescription meds that way. If the Spatrix doesn't work, I'll try copper sulphate as I have read elsewhere too that adding it to the water can prevent and clear canker.

Joyfull, I think vent gleet is like thrush and is also caused by trychomonas which is what causes pigeon canker so in theory the Spartrix should get rid of it. I can't get Nystatin as it's prescription only, could try Canestan but I think it's another in the same group of drugs as Spartrix but first I'll give the Spatrix until the course is complete before I give up on it!

Thank you both for your advice, it's always good to sound things out with experienced folks!

Judi

[hillfooter]

Treatment according to Gail Damerow Chicken Health handbook

Make up a solution of 100grams copper sulphate (powdered bluestone), 60ml vinegar and 1ltr water mix well.  (Her receipy was in US units 1pound, 1 cup, 1gallon but I converted to a quarter of the volume in metric.  You might like to dble check). This makes enough to treat 180Lts of drinking water so enough for a whole flock or two so scale as desired.

Add 25ml (tablespoon) of this solution per 4.5Lts of drinking water and use for 4 to 7 days in a none metalic drinker.

She recommends isolating sick chx from the flock.

To prevent further out breaks prevent pigeons from drinking the chx water or I'd suggest medicating their drinking water with Vanodine V18 to the solution suggested on the bottle for sanitising drinking water.

I've never used this so I can't vouch for it's safety or effectiveness so use at your own risk(I did carefully convert her receipy to metric).  Maybe it might be as well to treat all your birds if this proves effective.

She also suggests metronidazole (trade nme Flagyl) injections or pills.

Best of luck
Terry