persistent soft eggs

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jhub

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persistent soft eggs
« on: June 15, 2011, 00:55 »
Hello
have had a trouble free year with my 3  hens however for the past 2 months one of them has been laying soft eggs almost daily.
They are fed on layers pellets, daily greens and a small amount of corn in the afternoon, along with access to oyster shell and grit.
I bought her as  POL last May, she is alert and otherwise 'happy' and appears well.
I have followed the advice in the various posts on this site and have given her limestone flour/ olive oil on grapes for a couple of weeeks.
My questions:
How soon are calcium stores replenished following supplementation?
Should I continue the treatment?
Is there anything else I should do- bearing in mind our local poultry vet charges £70 for a consult?
many thanks
JAne

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hillfooter

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 06:04 »
Alas the stock answer to all such problems to supplement calcium is as often as not ineffective.  From what you have told us your hen shouldn't be short of calcium as her diet sounds fine, she isn't too old and you have been adding extra calcium and vit D3 anyway.  More likely there's some other problem which is causing her to not absorb the calcium or deposite it.  If you've given the calcium supplement a fair trial I doubt there's anything to be gained by continuing it beyond two weeks.  Increasing calcium over a prolonged period will put stress on the kidneys and could cause other complications.  In any case I would prefer to feed a larger particle size calcium supplement which is retained in the gizzard over protracted periods and greatly aid absorption rather than limestone flour which is quickly flushed through the digestive system.  particle size needs to be greater than 1mm ideally.  You could try feeding crushed oystershell in the feed not adlib in preference to limestone flour.

Is she being fed a good quality layers pellet?  Try changing brand if you are unsure.  A&P Spillers, BOCM, Dobson & HorralL, Fancy Feeds Marriages and many other major brands with 3.5% calcium should be fine

Has she moulted after her first year of laying.  Sometimes they renew their laying vigour after a moult.  If she hasn't one possibility would be to induce a moult though it can be quite hard on them.  To do this you need to deprive her of any food for 36hrs or so.  Induced moults should not be done without proper precautions and I've never done it but you can try googling to find out a safe procedure.

Other reasons for soft eggs are damage to the internal reproductive organs caused by infections which they may have caught as chicks or growers.  Infectious Bronchitis is a disease which often affects older birds laying performance  causing mishaped eggs and poor shell quality. Egg Drop Syndrome and genetic factors can also cause this.  A vet may prescribe an antibiotic if an internal infection is suspected.  I've had some limited success using Baytril.

Before you try anything more drastic like induced moult you could try increasing hydration by adding an electrolyte to her water for a couple of weeks, cutting out all treat feeds and adding a multivit to her water for a further two weeks.  Keep excitment down in the afternoon ie don't treat feed.

It may improve on it's own accord though curing it entirely maybe overly optimistic.

A useful electrolyte can be made as follows;

Dissolve in 3 litres of water

5 ml of Salt substitute, (1 teaspoon of potassium chlorite)
7.5 ml (1 and a half teaspoons) of Bicarbarbonate of soda (baking soda)
15 ml (3 teaspoons) salt

Use for 7 - 14 days

A summary of causes of thin or shell less eggs is listed below:
1.   Inheritance influences porosity and ability to produce strong shells
2.   Lack of sufficient calcium, phosphorus, manganese or vitamin D3
3.   Vitamin D2 mistakenly substituted for D3
4.   Excess phosphorus consumption, especially by older hens
5.   Ingestion of sulfanilamide (sulfa drugs)
6.   Disease: Newcastle disease, infectious bronchitis, avian influenza, Egg Drop Syndrome 76
7.   Hens exposed to temperature over 85-90°F
8.   Age of hens: incidence higher with older hens
9.   Premature laying of the egg


Best of luck
HF


« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 00:05 by hillfooter »
Truth through science.

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 16:12 »
Gosh Hillfooter what a comprehensive reply, thank you so much for your advice. I will try the electrolyte solution and grind the oyster shell-there is sufficient calcium in layers pellets.
Re the electrolytes- is it ok for the other hens to drink it or should I isolate the affected one?

Many thanks
Jane

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hillfooter

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 17:58 »
No they can all drink it.  No problem.  Don't use it beyond 14 days  it's high in salt but there shouldn't be a problem short term.

HF
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 18:01 by hillfooter »

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 19:33 »
mant thanks- will keep you posted
Jane

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 20:42 »
An update
I gave the electrolyte solution for 1 week- must admit I was a little worried as it tasted so salty.
Couldn't contemplate inducing a moult having researched it, I couldn't starve my hens for 7-10 days and as Hillfooter advised it is not a risk free process.
Anyway just to let you know she has laid an egg on 3 consecutive days, they are long and thin with a good layer of shell.
Thank you Hillfooter for your advice.

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hillfooter

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 23:12 »
An update
I gave the electrolyte solution for 1 week- must admit I was a little worried as it tasted so salty.
Couldn't contemplate inducing a moult having researched it, I couldn't starve my hens for 7-10 days and as Hillfooter advised it is not a risk free process.
Anyway just to let you know she has laid an egg on 3 consecutive days, they are long and thin with a good layer of shell.
Thank you Hillfooter for your advice.


Good news lets hope it continues.
 
I notice you say for induced moult you mention starvation for 7 - 10 days which I certainly wouldn't recommend 36 hrs was what I suggested.  I doubt they'd survive food deprevation for 7 - 10 days.

Hope the improvement continues
HF

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 23:27 »
well I promised an update and here it is -HP has reverted to laying soft shelled eggs again although otherwise alert and well.
I've decided to dose her with limestone flour twice a week for a month. I know there is a risk of renal problems from excess calcium  however there is also a risk of egg peritonitis with soft eggs.
Suggestions / comments welcome.
Thanks,
Jane

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hillfooter

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 00:11 »
If you are concerned about kidney stones through excess calcium you can add ammonium sulphate 0.5% to your birds feed (approx ) 0.5 of a gram a day.  This will acidify the urinates and reduce the likelihood of calcium deposites.

Unfortunately your experiences her aren't unique.  It may improve over time or come and go.  I currently have a Buff Sussex which has started to lay softshelled eggs this past week.  I'm not giving any treatment currently.

Your hen may have an internal infection which causes it.

HF

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 09:10 »
.

Your hen may have an internal infection which causes it.

HF
Hello HF
She had a course of Baytril- is it sufficiently broad spectrum to treat an internal infection?
Thanks,
jane

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LittleRedHen

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 11:22 »
I can't help you, but want you to know that I have hens the same age as yours and I am having the same problem.  I feel as though everytime one of them decides to lay that it is a regular Russion Roulette.  So you have my sympathy! 
When I die I will slide in sideways, a glass of wine in one hand and chocolate in the other, screaming, "Whooo hooo!  What a ride!" as life is to be enjoyed to the fullest!

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 16:02 »
I can't help you, but want you to know that I have hens the same age as yours and I am having the same problem.  I feel as though everytime one of them decides to lay that it is a regular Russion Roulette.  So you have my sympathy! 
Thank you LittleRedHen. It does seem to be a very common problem this year judging by the posts on this site.

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hillfooter

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 21:45 »
I think if you've tried the obvious things like increasing calcium and also adding more vitD3,  etc and it's not worked I would just leave her and see how things develop rather than trying things speculatively.  Just keep her under observation so if there's any indicationof illness or signs of egg binding you pick it up as early as possible.

HF

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 23:22 »
Thanks Hillfooter.

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jhub

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Re: persistent soft eggs
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 08:33 »
Hello everyone,

Thought I would give another update on the hen who has been laying soft shelled eggs for most of this year.

 Recently she appeared to go into shock after laying a soft shelled egg- tail down, eyes closed, disinterested in her favourite foods and when I picked her up she collapsed- initially I thought she had died.
I took her indoors, kept her warm and gave her poultry tonic and after a few hours she recovered and appeared back to her usual self. This recurred on three more occasions in the same week and after a discussion with my vet I decided  to have her put down.

I had tried various remedies and occasionally she would lay a normal egg but this was not sustained.

Thank you Hillfooter for your comprehensive advice and alos to other members who offered help.
Jane


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