Pease help my with my hen Gertie?

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R_A_W

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 20:32 »
I'm so glad that there are people round who are as nuts about chickens as me.  I absolutely adore mine, they are back garden chickens, Bessie, Mildred and Gertrude.
I'm worried for my sweet old Gertie but it sounds like most chickens generally make a recovery after laying a soft egg.  I'm hoping this is the case with my lovely Gert.
Memory is a selection of images. Some illusive, others printed indelibly on the brain.

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NormandyMary

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 20:40 »
What make of chook are you girls? They say that photos are compulsory on this board, trouble is Ive never been able to work out how to do it..thick or what??
Hope Gertie feels better tomorrow...great names by the way.

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R_A_W

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 20:50 »
Don't feel thick, I can't upload a picture either! Does anyone know how to do that?!
I've got a great pic of Gertie perched on the edge of a bench that I'd like to share...

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henamoured

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 23:39 »
Hi RAW
I had a soft egg from one of my warrens a couple of months ago which surprised me as these two are like little egg laying factories! As Teapots said, I think it was down to an upset in diet - in this case the hens had been sneaking into the lean-to and gorging on cat food (the cat ran for cover every time he saw them).
I made pellet porridge (pellets + warm water) and sprinkled a bit of poultry spice on it for a few days. Poultry Spice is 25% calcium. I also cut out all treats except some cabbage and normal production was resumed in a couple of days. Mine also have grit which comes ready mixed with oyster shell for 50p a bag which lasts a good few weeks.
Hope Gertie's better tomorrow.

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joyfull

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 08:41 »
how is gertie this morning?  :)
Staffies are softer than you think.

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R_A_W

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 10:51 »
Gerties OK!

She ran right over to me when I went out to them this morning, I'm not at work on Fridays so I've been checking her regularly.

She's been eating, drinking and preening herself lots, running around with Mildred and Bess looking interested in everything. And her tail is no longer droopy :-)

I'm going to keep an eye on her all day and my mum is going to get some oyster shell this afternoon.

Thankyou everyone for your kind support, it really helped when I was fretting last night.  I'm just so happy that she was stood right next to me making her lovely soft clucky noises at me again!

I'm still trying to upload a picture...still no luck with that one though!

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Aunt Sally

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 11:48 »
Make sure to get some extra calcium into her over the next week.  Oyster shell of course but short term I would recommend yogurt again, a little cod liver oil would be good for her too.

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R_A_W

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 12:20 »
what type of yoghurt should i get for her?

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Aunt Sally

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 12:34 »
Not flavoured - bio is best.

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hillfooter

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 14:23 »
Hi RAW,

Hope Gertie's doing fine now I expect so as it's perfectly normal for them to look very ill when they have a soft egg.  The muscles which produce a rythmic contraction to move an egg down the oviduct don't work very well on soft eggs so they have to work extra hard and this stresses the bird a lot.  However yhey will quickly recover once it's passed and with a bit of luck it will be just a one off experience but this time of year when the egg laying is slowing down it can be a problem.  

Chickens need calcium to produce the egg shell and they also need Vit D to help calcium absorption and this is usually naturally produced by sunshine.  At this time of year it can be that they might be suffering from a deficiency and a Vit D supplement may help which is why Aunt Sally mentions Cod Liver Oil (in moderation) which contains this vitamin.  Personally I wouldn't be too concerned to give extra calcium or force feed it by adding limescale powder to food and only if there was a persistent problem would I add a supplement.  Oyster shell from an animal feed merchant is a good thing to make available ad lib all year round so they can take it as they need.

Gertie I'm sure will be just fine if you continue with the basic simple nutrition and don't stress her.
Best wishes
HF
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 20:50 by hillfooter »
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Aunt Sally

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 14:40 »
What do you think of a little yogurt HF ?  It contans calcium and phoshorus in exactly the right proportions for calcium uptake.  Together with the Vit D - I agree a couple of drops per hen is quite enough - it gives a swift calcium boost to hens that may be running a bit short.

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R_A_W

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 15:14 »
Gertie has started to look a bit droopy again. Just went out to her and shes not as lively as she was this morning. Is this normal?

We've had to order some oyster shell because no one sells it round here, we have to wait till monday to get it. My mum has bought a cuttle fish bone, will that be ok for chickens? Is there anything around the house that I could give her for a quick pick me up?

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Aunt Sally

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 15:18 »
As I've said a few times yogurt is a quick pick up for hens.

Crush the cuttlefish bone up and add it to some soft food like mash or oatmeal.

She may be trying to lay another soft egg.

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R_A_W

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 15:29 »
I think that is what she is going to do, there seems to be little clear mucus coming from her vent.

I know you said to get some yoghurt but the person who has the cuttle fish isnt home yet, we dont have an yoghurt in the house and we live quite a way away from the nearest shop if you dont have a car, which i dont. I'll just have to wait for them to get back and keep an eye on her.

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hillfooter

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Re: Pease help my with my hen Gertie?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2010, 20:43 »
Hi RAW

DON'T PANIC if she's been egg bound as a result of the first egg being "stuck" there may be a bit of a log jam but it sounds like she's laying and not binding so hopefully it will sort itself out.

Re yogurt I'm afraid I'm not a fan although it might contain the elements we think will help it might also cause a digestive upset and I'd rather not risk that right now.  I'd treat this hen as if she's egg bound and the good news is she's passed the shelless egg which should get things moving.  If indeed she is having further difficulty passing another egg it might be best to keep her warm indoors in a darkened box to try to help her pass the bound egg and slow down or stop further ovulation.

Egg shells washed and baked and crushed as fine as possible are an alternative emerency source of calcium if you can't get crushed oystershell.  Cuttlefish bones are generally used for caged birds and it also helps to wear their beaks.  It's an expensive option for chickens, cage birds only need a small amount of calcium compared to Chickens as they only lay fertilised eggs.  To get enough you'll need to grind it as fine as possible and mix with the feed.   Limestone flour from equestrian suppliers is a concentrated source and shouldn't be given for more than 7 days at a time.   If the staple diet is pellets, add a small amount of corn oil (or cod liver oil for the Vit D) to just wet the pellets and very slightly darken them when mixed really well.  This will help the ground cuttlefish (or ground egg shell) stick and not settle out.  

Oyster shell crushed is by far the best as it serves two purposes one, as a source of soluable calcium which is almost 3 times more concentrated than egg shell, and two as grit to grind up the food in the gizzard.

However the reason I always put emphasis on basic staple nutrition, preferably in pelleted layers pelllets from a reputable manufactuer, is that it is guarenteed to be providing all the nutrients including calcium your chx need.  Cutting out treats and other homespun diets removes any risk of a deficiency.  So if your do this and the problem persists it suggests some malfunction of the chx metabolism (quite possibly a temporary upset due to other changes like moult, ceasing laying or a simple shock or stress, or worst case an infection.  Overdosing on calcium may help but my guess is it won't, though this is an obvious and easy thing to try first.  Increasing calcium will only work if it is absorbed and Vit D and other minerals may need to increase too to get the benefit.  There are supplements which can be added to water which are supposed to provide all these in the right proportions.  I've never used them so can't recommend them from personal experience.  

Spot sources of Vit D I'd prefer are cod liver oil, or tuna (in brine is best).  Poultry spice should provide the other minerals.  Note I don't advocate feeding any of these in normal circumstances and in fact my view of poultry spice is that it's a cure for inducing a nutritional imbalance in the first place and surplus to requirements if the staple diet is right.

I started by saying DON'T PANIC and as with any animal illness the difficult decision is when to intervene and when to let nature take its course.  In RAW's case it maybe that in her (?) anxiety to see Gertie fully recovered she may be trying to intervene too early and not allowing enough time to let things sort themselves out.  I would say however that if egg binding occurs and laying stops and Gertie shows signs of deterioration or distress it is potentially a dangerous condition and it would be best to see a vet rather than feeding calcium which will take time to have an effect and won't deal with the trauma of a potentially stuck egg in anycase.

Best wishes
HF


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