[Ivah]

I've always thought the invention of the plough was a sign of civilisation. Subsistence farmers have always ploughed and dug and I don't think they did it for fun, I'm sure they had more tasks than time so if it didn't work it wouldn't have been done. I think regular digging gives you consistency and continuity, no dig would work for a time but is really living on the back of the previous preparation.

[craggy]

I've always thought the invention of the plough was a sign of civilisation. Subsistence farmers have always ploughed and dug and I don't think they did it for fun, I'm sure they had more tasks than time so if it didn't work it wouldn't have been done. I think regular digging gives you consistency and continuity, no dig would work for a time but is really living on the back of the previous preparation.

there's digging,and there's digging.i dig to plant my spuds,start my asparagus,and again to get my spuds,or to remove any perenial things like soft fruit or comfrey.Apart from that or the initial preparation of the plot,i don,t.Only fork and rake.But if it,s a fitness thing,thats different.I go swimming{free for the over sixties}

[BostonInbred]

I rotovate to the deepest depth the Merry Tiller will go (about 8 inches) when im done with a bed, or when i want to dig in manure. Apart from that i kill the weeds by  covering and uncovering beds with black plastic throughout winter and up to spring planting. Seems to work and keeps the weeds down.

[freckledbeck]

Maybe, or perhaps the plough was invented to benefit farmers who grew on a large scale, as opposed to those who grow to feed themselves?
If you look at any woodland or uncultivated site, plants thrive -without the benefit of digging! Perhaps I'm trying to kid myself here as 'no digging' sounds so attractive, but I think it makes sense.

[BostonInbred]

Maybe, or perhaps the plough was invented to benefit farmers who grew on a large scale, as opposed to those who grow to feed themselves?
If you look at any woodland or uncultivated site, plants thrive -without the benefit of digging! Perhaps I'm trying to kid myself here as 'no digging' sounds so attractive, but I think it makes sense.

well its a bit of an illusion. The only plants that thrive in uncultivated land are the ones best adapted for that environment. You look at an open woodland where ferns have gotten hold, there is nothing but ferns and trees. Wild Rhododendrons swamp out everything else by hogging all the sun.. Presumably digging was invented to allow the desired species of plant to grow rather than leaving it to chance.

[craggy]

Maybe, or perhaps the plough was invented to benefit farmers who grew on a large scale, as opposed to those who grow to feed themselves?
If you look at any woodland or uncultivated site, plants thrive -without the benefit of digging! Perhaps I'm trying to kid myself here as 'no digging' sounds so attractive, but I think it makes sense.

well its a bit of an illusion. The only plants that thrive in uncultivated land are the ones best adapted for that environment. You look at an open woodland where ferns have gotten hold, there is nothing but ferns and trees. Wild Rhododendrons swamp out everything else by hogging all the sun.. Presumably digging was invented to allow the desired species of plant to grow rather than leaving it to chance.

here,here.Dig when you have to,or when your bored with hoovering.

[Trikidiki]

I think the diggers need to distinguish between "No Dig" and "No Cultivation".

Sure if you do nothing then the weeds, Rhoddies or whatever will take over. "No Dig" doesn't mean you don't weed or till the top inches of the soil, my view is it means you just don't break you're back digging deep when its not necessary.

Deep beds shouldn't need digging once the initial work is done, however it will take some years to get the humus into the lower layers. Once the system is established you are letting nature do the work for you. You just replace the weed plants with what you want to grow and keep adding humus for the organisms to take down into the soil for you.

Obviously if your starting on a clay soil it is going to take a long time to get to the point where you don't have to dig. On a sandy soil it wil take much less time. If you're lucky enough to have a deep loam already, you're home and dry.

I am currently a digger but am aiming to get to the point where digging, let alone double digging, is not necessary.

[boosh]

Corect me if i am wrong

The no dig method is the basis of organic growing. you look after the soil and the soil looks after the plants. so the more organic material you can add to the soil the better,

As for farm land, The majority of it supports hardly any life that is good for the crops(worms etc).They add hardly any organic material, and rely on man made fertalizers.( my brother used to work on a farm)

I am a digger, I add as much organic material as i can, i just can't get hold of enough to do the whole plot.

[freckledbeck]

I thought being pasture land would make the soil better because of all the cow manure?

[Trillium]

Not really. the fertilization is literally very spotty. And grazing grasses don't do big or nitrogen fixing roots as would 'green manures'.

[Swing Swang]

>Maybe, or perhaps the plough was invented to benefit farmers who grew on a large scale, as opposed to those who grow to feed themselves?

The plough producee a similar effect to digging only quicker, so it is for large scale as you suggest (although Dad's neighbour will tie up a plough to his donkey for mere fractions of an acre, so 'large scale' is actually quite relative). This isn't an argument against digging, but rather an argument about the method employed for achieving desired soil cultivation.

To stick with ploughs for a moment - during the last century ploughs ploughed deeper, so if we want to draw parallels with ploughing maybe we should always double dig!

Just a thought.

 

[craggy]

I think the diggers need to distinguish between "No Dig" and "No Cultivation".

Sure if you do nothing then the weeds, Rhoddies or whatever will take over. "No Dig" doesn't mean you don't weed or till the top inches of the soil, my view is it means you just don't break you're back digging deep when its not necessary.

Deep beds shouldn't need digging once the initial work is done, however it will take some years to get the humus into the lower layers. Once the system is established you are letting nature do the work for you. You just replace the weed plants with what you want to grow and keep adding humus for the organisms to take down into the soil for you.

Obviously if your starting on a clay soil it is going to take a long time to get to the point where you don't have to dig. On a sandy soil it wil take much less time. If you're lucky enough to have a deep loam already, you're home and dry.

I am currently a digger but am aiming to get to the point where digging, let alone double digging, is not necessary.

could'nt have put it better.I did the hard work 25years ago.now it,s keep adding the horse * and growmore,and a bit of fiddling about.

[freckledbeck]

So if we want to use the 'no dig' system, we have to dig initally to prepare the ground?

[solway cropper]

I dug this present plot for three years to get it into shape and it just about killed me. I'm now self sufficient in compost and I'll be no-dig from this year onwards, just cover it in compost and let the worms do the work. I will lightly fork it over and rake the surface but no more digging. I really can't see the point of digging once the plot is in a productive state. Gardening should be fun not punishment.

[freckledbeck]

Thanks solway cropper.
I joined the Charles Dowding forum, and he says it should be possible to start the no dig system by not digging, just applying newspaper and a very thick mulch, then again 3 months later. He also said in the first year crops may not be fantastic but should improve the following year onwards.
I agree gardening should be fun and I'm not sure digging could be called fun.... especially with a baby strapped to your back!