[PC PLOT]

Hi,
Can anyone answer this: if I buy non-organic seeds bearing in mind the size of a seed and then grew that seed on using organic methods, would the seed treatments that the seed may contain or chemicals from non-organic production be diluted enough through the organic growing methods used, to enable the produce to be considered chemical free.

The reason I ask is that I am on an organic diet but there are some veg that I love that are F1's, so I thought that a vegetable like the pumpkin that produces a large plant prior to fruiting may be a contender for growing organic from non-organic, or am I just PC LOST THE PLOT?.

[mumofstig]

For me.....if i grow it organically then it's organic veg!

Others may disagree

[PAULW]

Does the seed really know if it is organic or not? would an organic seed brought up on chemicals throw its arms up in despair and commit hari kari?

[DD.]

I'd have thought that if you grew a large plant ifrom a small inorganic seed, there would be stuff all trace of any chemicals, if there were indeed any in the first instance.

I have been know to be wrong.

[SpudtheBinx]

I think this proves how silly it is to have such a hard fast definition of organic. If you would be happy to eat it and you want to be organic, then organic it is Yes it might not be able to carry the soil association trademark, but who cares

[PC PLOT]

Does the seed really know if it is organic or not? would an organic seed brought up on chemicals throw its arms up in despair and commit hari kari?

Of course a seed knows not if it's organic, but non-organic seeds are suggested to be coated with or contain chemicals. My question was about non-organic  grown as organic, not the reverse, and the resulting chemical dilution in a growing plant not the name "organic". Having said that the mental picture of a seed throwing it's arms up and commiting hari kari was rather amusing,
Thanks for your reply

[shaun]

i wouldnt worry about it,infact i dont realy understand why they sell organic seed,whatever you grow from the seed organic or not it will be far more organic than that tripe that the supermarkets try and force feed us,like organic veg from africa i'm confused now 

[mumofstig]

non-organic seeds are suggested to be coated with chemicals

if the seeds have a chemical treatment on them the pkt has to say so.

But you can buy organic f1 seeds if you want to be truly organic,  look here for example,
i'm sure there must be other suppliers

http://www.thompson-morgan.com/seeds1/ilist/organic?er=google;term=organic+seeds&gclid=CNbr04zdjpoCFVCE7QodLhU1FQ

[SG6]

First you need to know if the seed has been treated in any way, then does that treatment count as inorganic or organic.

After comes the question of whether or not that treatment could be carried over to the resulting plant and the fruit/crop that it bears.

I suspect that the main inorganic treatment of a seed would be a fungicide treatment, we would get pretty upset if the seeds we bought were mouldy. Remembering that if one went it would probably take the whole sealed packet.

Would the small amount involved really constitute calling an organically grown plant from such treated seed as inorganic? My view is no.

I equally suspect that this is the norm, as everything I see says "Organically grown". To me this manages to avoid the debate of the seed itself being organic quite nicely.

The organic debate is in general centred around the use of insecticides and herbicides used in quantity on fields and crops. I suggest that insecticides are not applicable in the seed case - sealed in foil packets that I need scissors to get into. Herbicides are also as they tend to kill the seeds, not really commerical sense to sell dead seeds.

[oldbean]

There are insecticidal as well as fungicidal seed treatments. I imagine an organic fungicide might possibly be copper sulphate based, whereas an inorganic type would be systemic. Insecticides that are systemic stay with the seed and with the plant, the idea is to prevent attack in the plants. There is a debate currently about neo-nicotinoids  which are suspected of causing problems for bees, an unintended victim. If they can cause problems for bees, might they cause problems for other consumers? Statistically you are unlikely to suffer, but then this is always the thinking until the data gathered shows something else to be the case. Then the product is withdrawn, possibly too late for some.

[PAULW]

PC PLOT Could you please point me to the scientific paper which gives the evidence for this claim.

[celjaci]

According to Soil Association rules for accredited growers - seed should be organic.
However derrogation can be given to use non-organic seed if equivalent varieties are not available as organic seed - produce grown from this non-organic seed can still be sold as organic. So you never know what seed was used when you buy organic produce.

You can also grow a plant organically from non-organic seed and harvest your own seed and call it organic.

Fruit produced from non-organic trees grown organically cannot be sold as organic untill the second year of organic cultivation - it must be assumed that chemicals used on trees take longer to eliminate or dilute?

Basically I don't think you would have much to worry about but I would try and avoid seeds with fungical dressings

[Yabba]

Size of seed / size of plant == hell of a dilution ratio

¥

[oldbean]

Not if it's a systemic hormone.

[harrymac]

... or genetically modified. Or treated with colchicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicine#Botanical_use)