To wee or not to wee.

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cornykev

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To wee or not to wee.
« on: November 11, 2006, 16:19 »
:shock: hi all   proberly an old question but I heard urine was a good activator for the compost, I asked my next plot neighbour Sid he laughed and said no one would eat his veggies if they knew. I tried it and wondered if anybody else piddles on their compost :?:  I will wait for replies with crossed legs.   :oops:
MAY THE CORN BE WITH YOU

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Aunt Sally

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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 16:42 »
:lol:  :lol:

Not me, but my husband does  :shock:  :roll:

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Zak the Rabbit

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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2006, 17:10 »
Oh yes,

but i bottle it up until i have 2l of it, by that time its decomposing itself.

Its the urea that decomposes to ammonia, promoting the decomposition of the organic matter and adding nitrogen,

there is some debate as to wether female urine should be used. This is due to the hormone content.  I doubt that natural hormone content is likely to be detrimental, but their are real environmental concerns over synthetic hormones, as would be present if the female in question used hormonal contraception (the pill). That said, ive seen no data on any effects relating to land based organisms or the hormones persistance in such an environment, most concerns are with the effects of these synthetic estrogens in the aquatic environment (some rather strange effects have been noted on the sexual characteristics of fish, and i dont mean whether other fish fancy them or not)

I remember that zoe, my springer spaniel bitch,in common with most female animals, would cause great damage if allowed to 'go' on the lawn. So, from that view point it would be an advantage, as it has a strong effect on the vegetation.


Personally, i doubt that female urine would have any detrimental effect in this context, and male urine is fine, so, let yourself go!


on a slightly more distastful note, i am curious as to how effective this actually is, and intend to test the theory out in laboratory conditions in the future (when i find somewhere to do the experiment that no one will object to)



Martin
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greenie

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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2006, 17:46 »
I remember my granny doing this with her plants and I thought it was disgusting. Then one of my best friends with the most lush plants said she used her baby's wee. I still think it's icky but many true blue gardeners swear by it. I just mix in coffee grounds in the compost bins and it seems to activate it well enough.

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shaun

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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2006, 18:23 »
you want to the size of the tomatoes that grow on top of the filter beds in your local sewage works(i'm not joking)
feed the soil not the plants
organicish
you learn gardening by making mistakes

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Eristic

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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2006, 19:11 »
Quote
and intend to test the theory out in laboratory conditions in the future


Zak, the biggest problem I can see is providing both heaps with the same quantity and type of raw material, and remembering which pile to p on. The ingredient mix must be the same in both heaps otherwise one may compost down faster due to more suitable contents.

Many people reading this and the other posts on the subject will be having a good giggle, but the reality of the situation is that most allotments are a large open field with no toilet facilities provided. Those sites that do have a toilet block tend to be very large and when faced with the choice of a quick wizz on the compost heap or a long walk to the queue at the facilities, the compost heap gets it every time.

Maybe it does not do much good but I believe it does no harm. Its convenient.

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Zak the Rabbit

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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2006, 19:17 »
as with any lab experiment, it will be much smaller scale, i do lab chemistry, not industrial!

at the scale i intend, around 5-10litres of organic matter,its quite convenient, i will use demijohns, an even mix of grass clippings and leaves, the mix made up in a single batch then divided. These 'heaps' will not be turned, in order to observe the relative layer effects. When the accelerant is added, the control will be fed with the same quantity of deionized water to balance the moisture content.

actually gauging the results might be a touch trickier than setting the trial up.

I tried a similar system years ago in anaerobic conditions for methane generation, but neglected to add any actual anaerobic bacteria!

perhaps communal gas generating sludge digesters should be used at lotty sites?


Martin

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Zak the Rabbit

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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2006, 19:22 »
oh, incidentally, urine is a very good accelerant for sludge digestion, as can be attested to by many a soldier


on covert tasks, it is necessary to take all your wastes with you, but they are kept seperate (one poor sod has to lug the gerry can used as a urinal, hence the phrase to carry the can) many annecdotes abound of the explosive result of a 'mixed bag'



All these disposal methods are cheap and easy to build, and so we build them for developing countries to make their environment safer, theres no reason not to use the same techniques here


Martin

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muntjac

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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2006, 19:44 »
there was a waste ( i say that politly ) disposal plant  on the banks of the river humber at pyewipe where great piles of this so callled processed pooop lay .during the summer it was covered in tomato plants and had some of the best and biggest toms ever ,we as kids used to crawl through the fence and pick the toms on the lower levels as it was definatly dangerous to try and climb these piles ., we would take them home in trailers attached to our bikes made up of old pram wheels and the like, then sell them door to door at a 1d a pound or thereabouts . we got questions as to where we got them ." from dads allotment "came the answer  "we selling em fer him" . also we picked the brambles as big as an adult thumb from there later in the year .i shudder now to think what folks would have done if they had caught us , but they sure tasted great  :lol: .oh and my gran used to take her gussunder and dump it on the compost heap or water her pees with it  :wink:

oh and the plant made urea for animal feed
still alive /............

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Flower

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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2006, 21:24 »
I'm sure there's nothing better to accelerate the compost heap than a bucketful of piddle .As it happens I've got a dustbin full of water and hanging in it is a pair of tights filled with sheep droppings , which I shall be using on my dry compost tomorrow.

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John

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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2006, 23:30 »
I'm pretty certain urine is sterile and people have drunk their own with no ill effects - except to their social life, of course.  The women's is  just as good, I'm sure but I expect a scientist can prove it one way or the other.

Human poo is another matter. I understand it should be composted for 18 months to stop it being a health hazard.

Dried sewage sludge used to be available as a fertiliser but not now due to contamination with oils, metals etc. Changed your car oil? Just pour it down the drain and pollute.
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Zak the Rabbit

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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2006, 08:03 »
i wouldn't go so far as to agree with the idea that urine is sterile, but this is my opinion, ive no evidence either way. I cant think how the body could sterilise it, but it is likely to be fairly low on pathogens, unless of course the source individual has a urinary tract infection. It can have abnormal content of substances, the classic being glucose, indicative of diabetes. In that sense, it could even be an advantage, the extra sugar would promote yeast grow within the compost. Not sure if that would be beneficial or not.

As you say John, solids are much more risky. Their composition leads to being a better haven for bacteria and viral particles. Treatment works destroy many of these by aeration, but they are the reason that water drawn for supply close to a effluent outlet requires tertiary treatment and higher levels of disinfection, such as ozone or UV treatment.

SOme pretty nasty outbreaks have been as a result of this effluent reaching water supplies


Unless composted for a good time i certainly wouldnt recommend using your solids on the plot, unless you used it as biomass fuel.

I dont recall any disease outbreaks as a result of someone peeing in a watercourse. I also though wouldnt recommend you drink your own (or anyone elses), as the salt content would be just as bad as drinking seawater in the long run. But you could solar distill it for fresh water. If your at the stage where you consider drinking it, your body will probably have reabsorbed most of the water content anyway.


I also dont know of any disease as a result of veg being eaten that was grown on such compost, veg dont tend to be viral vectors like snails etc can be, but the risk of contamination by direct contact probably is more serious and rules it out.



Martin


NB: all views here are my own, and although based on scientific knowledge, may very well not reflect current data or advice!

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John

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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2006, 09:20 »
Zak, I was thinking of people who drank their own for 'health' reasons rather than people in the last stages of thirst.

Probably filed under 'crazy but true' :)

Just a point while we are talking about manure use on allotments - do ensure your tetanus jabs are up to date. Even today it's a very serious illness and the jab doesn't really hurt (I'm a wimp so if I can do it)
BBC Link on Tetanus

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Zak the Rabbit

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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2006, 09:26 »
i guess it does no harm, but im pretty sure drinking your bodies waste cant have any health benefits, if it did your body wouldnt let the stuff out!



Martin

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John

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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2006, 09:39 »
Quote from: "Zak the Rabbit"
i guess it does no harm, but im pretty sure drinking your bodies waste cant have any health benefits, if it did your body wouldnt let the stuff out!
Martin


I totally agree - but I'm not making it up, just google drinking urine if you think I'm kidding.  Nowt so queer as folk.

 

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