[John]

The anti vaxxers would raise hell if it was mandatory.  I don't think it could be enforced.

If people don't want to be vaccinated, why should they be? So long as they don't expect to get treated on the NHS if they do fall ill with a preventable illness.  If they can afford private treatment, then fair enough. I'm sure someone from the USA could explain how much medical treatment costs.

[snowdrops]

The anti vaxxers would raise hell if it was mandatory.  I don't think it could be enforced.

I wouldn’t be too sure of that. Herd immunity as someone else said only works if the majority take the plunge & their choosing not to or unable to be vaccine relies on the majority taking up the offer.  To me for us getting back to some semblance of normal we might need drastic action & this years events have been drastic enough already. Tbh so far I’ve quite liked being locked down to a degree as long as I can see close family & friends I can cope. That said yesterday was the first time since lockdown that I’ve had any physical contact with our daughter when we hugged (& both cried) plus I would like to be able to arrange to see my sister whom I’ve not seen since last June so I’m not being flippant.
Taking a step back might be what it takes to make the world a safer place😞

[Subversive_plot]

I am beyond "done" with listening to what people think they should or should not be expected to do in a world-wide health crisis like this.

My parents were young adults during the Second World War. The UK and every Allied country gave up so very much for the war effort. Food shortages, bombardment, lives lost in battle, everyone pitched in.  Because not doing so would mean losing everything. The USA, we did our part too, though not suffering as much as your country did.

So now, with hundreds of thousands of lives already lost, and more on the line, is it asking too much to put on a mask, stay 6 feet apart, and take a jab in the arm when it becomes available??

John, I quite agree with what you say about medical costs in the USA. I have insurance through my work, it does not cover everything, I have to pay a lot for the employees part of the insurance, with any medical care I have beyond check-ups I must pay several thousand dollars before insurance pays anything. I have saved responsibly and well for a retirement that I have not reached yet. I think my family is better prepared than 95% of my countrymen for retirement, emergencies, etc.  Despite this, one difficult or prolonged illness (COVID, cancer, etc.) is all it will take to wipe my family out financially.

So yes, if I were in the UK, I think it would be quite reasonable to say, take the jab or be locked out of NHS.

[New shoot]

OH went and did some work for an NHS nurse recently and she was telling him that her personal target for flu jabs this autumn was 5,000, which is a huge hike over previous years.  They are really pushing this, so if we don't have an effective vaccine for covid, at least the NHS has better protection against being swamped by flu sufferers.

There will be some who won't play the team game and never do on anything, but despite the media picking holes in everything, the vast majority of folk understand what needs to happen and do want to do the right thing. 

We are not enforcing the wearing of face coverings at the door of the shop, but nearly everyone has one on. The softly, softly approach is working by peer pressure and not wanting to stand out as anti-social or irresponsible.  Now people have got used to this and adapted their behaviour, the government here have just announced bigger punishments for those who go out of their way to break the rules.  I think the vaccines will be sold the same way.

[John]

I am beyond "done" with listening to what people think they should or should not be expected to do in a world-wide health crisis like this.
....
So now, with hundreds of thousands of lives already lost, and more on the line, it is asking too much to put on a mask, stay 6 feet apart, and take a jab in the arm when it becomes available??

It does feel that a lot of people know their rights but forget their responsibilities. You can't have a society where people do what they will without regard to others. For example, we have speed limits on roads to save lives. They breach my right to drive like a madman

With masks, which seem to have acquired political significance in the USA, my understanding is they offer little protection to the person wearing the mask but help prevent the wearer infecting others. Wearing a mask doesn't say 'I'm a scaredy cat' - it says 'I am considering the well being of others'

As for anti-vaxxers.. I'd march them all to the edge of the earth and push them off into space 

[mumofstig]

The thing about flu jabs - how will the nurses cope with doing this many?
Our surgery just won't give patients proper face to face appointments with doctors - yet, I presume, will consider it's acceptable for nurses to actually see people.
It makes me so very cross the way surgeries have chosen to handle this...

[John]

I'd be quite OK to have a jab outside, in public. I think they need to think outside of the normal for now. Our doctors are frustrating to say the least in the way they're handling things. Perhaps they'll get better when they've been on the course for organising parties in a brewery. 

The vet, however, is well organised and careful. Not to mention, very expensive 

[mrs bouquet]

I had to go for a blood test a few weeks ago at the Doctors.  There are to gazebos on an unused driveway, a table and chair, and eventually a nurse !   I feel sure that this is how they will approach the flu jab.   I shall ring them next week and find out when they start, last year I had mine at the end of September.  Remember there is a lot of difference between a cold and Flu.  Mrs Bouquet

[snowdrops]

Each trust has an immunisation department with staff on the frontline delivering vaccinations so they’ll be on hand to mass immunise if needed, plus other staff will be redeployed if necessary from whereever they can get them, overtime shifts,bank staff nurses etc. There’s plenty of venues that can be utilised

[mumofstig]

I really don't want to get on a bus to go somewhere, that seems a bit too risky for me, so I hope they'll still do them in the surgery/surgery carpark

[Subversive_plot]

I attended a Catholic school for my first seven years of formal education.  I remember that one year, a local doctor, whose children attended the school, arranged for shots for all of the children in our grade level, at low or no cost to families. I was probably 7 years old at the time (?), our biggest worry is you didn't want to be the child that cried!!  We lined up single file in the hallway, papers filled out by parents, hand them over, iodine wipe, jab, small bandage, done.  They had 50 of us done in 15 minutes.  Then go eat lunch and play at recess. It could be like that, minus the lunch and play.

2019, my flu shot was given at the pharmacy inside of the local supermarket. 

[al78]

I am beyond "done" with listening to what people think they should or should not be expected to do in a world-wide health crisis like this.
....
So now, with hundreds of thousands of lives already lost, and more on the line, it is asking too much to put on a mask, stay 6 feet apart, and take a jab in the arm when it becomes available??

It does feel that a lot of people know their rights but forget their responsibilities. You can't have a society where people do what they will without regard to others. For example, we have speed limits on roads to save lives. They breach my right to drive like a madman

With masks, which seem to have acquired political significance in the USA, my understanding is they offer little protection to the person wearing the mask but help prevent the wearer infecting others. Wearing a mask doesn't say 'I'm a scaredy cat' - it says 'I am considering the well being of others'

As for anti-vaxxers.. I'd march them all to the edge of the earth and push them off into space 

The problem is that the virus is not going anywhere any time soon, but the government have gone down the nirvana path that the only solution is complete elimination at any cost. It is looking likely to me that the virus is going to be something we have to learn to live with and manage accordingly, like we do with other contageous viruses which we don't nuke the economy for. I think what we need to do is increase funding to the NHS to make it more resiliant to contageous viruses by increasing capacity, we have to look at getting back to at least a near normal life, and accept that some people are going to die annually from this virus. Even if a vaccine is developed and rolled out, there will still be the possibility that the vaccinated can still be carriers and pass it on to the vulnerable, even if they won't get hit hard by the symptoms. There is a terrible danger now that the near neurotic response to this virus is going to ultimately cause more death and suffering than the virus ever could.

You try to compare compulsory mask wearing with speed limits, but if transport was treated like this virus, all motor transport would be banned until zero deaths could be guarenteed, and we'd all have to get around on foot or bicycle, and hard luck to those who's lives depend on having access to a car.

[al78]

The anti vaxxers would raise hell if it was mandatory.  I don't think it could be enforced.

If people don't want to be vaccinated, why should they be? So long as they don't expect to get treated on the NHS if they do fall ill with a preventable illness.  If they can afford private treatment, then fair enough. I'm sure someone from the USA could explain how much medical treatment costs.

I would strongly advise not going down that road. Shall we deny NHS treatment to those who have been judged to make unhealthy lifestyle choices throughout their life? That would probably ultimately end up killing off a lot of elderly people. Who are you going to trust to be in the position to decide who is worthy or not of receiving treatment (and don't say yourself).

I find the more extreme the arguments become, the less likely they are built on the solid foundation of logic, and more on the quicksand of emotion.

[John]

I would strongly advise not going down that road. Shall we deny NHS treatment to those who have been judged to make unhealthy lifestyle choices throughout their life? That would probably ultimately end up killing off a lot of elderly people. Who are you going to trust to be in the position to decide who is worthy or not of receiving treatment (and don't say yourself).

I find the more extreme the arguments become, the less likely they are built on the solid foundation of logic, and more on the quicksand of emotion.

Doctors already do limit treatment options based on poor lifestyle choices. Operations were regularly refused (pre Covid) until the patient lost weight or gave up smoking. Liver transplants refused to those who wouldn't stop drinking alcohol.
So by the gist of your argument, you'd be happy to be run over by a drunk driver at 80mph? After all, the poor driver just made a poor choice to drink to excess and couldn't help driving badly because of his previous poor lifestyle choice.
We pander to idiots who believe vaccines put chips into their single brain cell which does annoy me, making us pay for their treatment and worse the treatment of others they infect is unacceptable in my view. I firmly believe in personal responsibility and people accepting the consequences of their actions.

[Subversive_plot]

In the USA (possibly elsewhere too), when hospitals are exceeding treatment capacity for COVID, doctors are already having to make choices about which patients get treatment and a chance to survive, vs. sorry, no room, go die at home.  This is not a fictional plot line, it has happened many times and in many locations.  The cost to keep a COVID patient alive is staggering, yet medical professionals do it all the time, at great personal risk.

So when the choice has to be made, who gets a chance to live? If the choice is between me and a child, that's easy, the child lives to fight another day. But what if it's between two patients, one that got the jab and it didn't work (happens sometimes with flu), vs. someone that refused  to be vaccinated? I think the vaccinated person gets the medical resources when the choice must be made.