digging manure in Jan??

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donkeyrobber

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digging manure in Jan??
« on: January 10, 2015, 15:33 »
Hi,

This is my first season with an allotment. Before Christmas, I started clearing the plot and dug out some beds. I've still got the back of the plot to do.

When would be the best time to dig organic matter into these beds? Is there any reason for not doing it now in dry weather?

Not to be impatient, I'm just keen to give it plenty of time after digging in bags of manure before I start planting. So I don't want to leave it to the last minute.

It not too frosty at the moment and there's no sign of snow in the south east. That may not be the case next month. So in a way, I'm thinking why not do it now?

But I'm new to this and want to follow good advice. There's no advice to be found about digging in January. Is that just because traditionally January is a bad month for being outside and this kind of work SHOULD have been done at the end of last year? Or is there a very sound reason for not doing this now?

I'm planning to use sacks of well rotted manure bought from homebase (it's only £20 for 200L and get's good reviews), so there's no concern that the ground should need to be left a long time, like there might be if I were planning to use fresh manure.

Thanks,

Rob
I'm a software engineer in search of a more wholesome past time that spending my life on the internet (kind of an ironic, eh?)

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BabbyAnn

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 16:02 »
If done in autumn, the soil is still warm enough for soil bacteria and fungi to get to work breaking down the organic matter so that by spring, it will be in a form that plants will be able to use.

January and February can be cold and wet, and this can affect the soil structure especially if you are on heavy clay (the digging can compact the soil)

You could carefully put the manure on top of the soil as a mulch on some beds and then dig it in when the weather improves.  As you are in the south east, it might be possible to dig the manure in now - make sure it is well rotted, and avoid beds where you intend growing carrots and parsnips.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 16:04 by BabbyAnn »

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Mr Dog

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 16:11 »
As with all things gardening, I'm going to give you a slightly different answer to BabbyAnn - just leave it on top and let the worms dig it in. In my view, the great advantages in doing this are not only does it save you the effort of more digging, but it also suppresses weed growth in the spring.

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mumofstig

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 16:17 »
As with all things gardening, I'm going to give you a slightly different answer to BabbyAnn - just leave it on top and let the worms dig it in. In my view, the great advantages in doing this are not only does it save you the effort of more digging, but it also suppresses weed growth in the spring.

If it's horse manure, the manure itself can be full of weeds seeds - I don't find it makes much difference to weed growth tbh.
I do agree with letting the worms do the work, though  :lol:

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Salmo

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 21:03 »
If you want good advice you should put where you live in your profile. It would also help if you tell us what type of soil you have e.g. clay, sandy etc.

I would hope that manure from Homebase is sterilised and has no weed seeds. If seems very expensive and you might be better to try and get some from a farm or riding stables, although you would probably have to wait for it to get well rotted. If you are buying manure at that price you should spread it on the surface and lightly fork it in to keep it near the surface where it will help to retain moisture.

Long term you should look at making you own compost or obtaining cheaper manure. Around here it is £20 for a tractor trailer load, delivered. But there again we are in the sticks with a very helpful farmer.

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donkeyrobber

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 22:40 »
Thanks for your helpful advise. If the rain holds of tonight, I think some digging might be possible.

I read somewhere earlier that if you can extract moisture from the soil with your hands (i.e. squeeze it and it drips), it's too wet to dig without damaging It. Otherwise, digging should be ok in that respect. Would you folks agree with that?

As for the ground being to cold for the organisms and bacteria in the soil to break down the manure, would  loosely covering the beds with polythene (raised to allow airflow), or cardboard help to kickstart the process? Otherwise, at the very least, it will be in place as soon as the ground starts to heat up.

I will at the very least place manure (the expensive stuff from homebase) over the beds (except for the beds I am reserving for Carrots and Parsnips) and leave it at that until digging it over seems reasonable (I will take my lead from my neighbours - as soon as I see someone else lift a fork, I'll get on it). If digging seems reasonable, I'll turn over the beds a little. If I get this done tomorrow, will the beds be ok to plant into in March / April?

Salmo, I hope that once I have some confidence in what I am doing I will be able to approach a local stable and source a much cheaper supply. I have got a compost heap on the plot, but I inherited it and I have no idea what state it's in at the moment. I don't feel comfortable with using it now. I plan to keep adding my kitchen waste to it for now and explore it further in the spring. In the meantime, with my knowledge in these matters as limited as it is, paying over the odds for a product I feel confident in using seems like a good idea. I'd hate to naively dig some unprepared or contaminated manure into this plot before I even get started.

Thanks again for your advice.

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Dantheman

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2015, 08:51 »
Hi

Sorry to move away from the original post but as for your compost bin, I've brought myself a fairly good paper shredder the cuts criss cross, I put cardboard and nearly all the paper (brown's) that would otherwise go into our recycling bin though it and store in a black bin next to my compost bin every time I add kitchen waste (greens) add some shredding too. Also Add little human liquid (wee) from time to time helps speed things up. It work's out pretty good for me.

Dan
Dear God, Please can you stop the wind and rain and bring on the nice weather. Amen

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Salmo

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 09:02 »
Use your compost in the bottom of a bean trench. Really pile it in, it can go in there pretty raw. That way, in the unlikely event of contamination, and in the likely event that it is full of weed seeds, it will be confined to a small area of your plot.


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Liverpool Brick

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 09:51 »
Quote
This is my first season with an allotment. Before Christmas, I started clearing the plot and dug out some beds. I've still got the back of the plot to do.
Welcome! Don't try to cultivate it all at once. Get a small bit started and plant something - then watch it grow. Deal with the rest of the plot as and when you can - it may take years! My plot is only 3/4 under cultivation (raised beds) after 4 years. Good luck and enjoy!
Plant it and it will grow.

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Liverpool Brick

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 09:56 »
Re Manure - forgot to say, go to the stables! £20 for 200L is expensive and most stables in my experience are keen to give it away. 

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Goosegirl

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 11:30 »
Hi DR. Whether to dig or not in January does depend on your type of soil and how wet it is. If it's sandy, it should be ok but if it's clay, then you will do more harm than good by treading on it when wet as it will get compacted. The easiest way it just to lay it on top.
I work very hard so don't expect me to think as well.

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Yorkie

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 12:43 »
If soil sticks to your boots it's too wet and keep off.
I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days all attack me at once...

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moose

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 15:44 »
I read somewhere earlier that if you can extract moisture from the soil with your hands (i.e. squeeze it and it drips), it's too wet to dig without damaging It. Otherwise, digging should be ok in that respect. Would you folks agree with that

You will find that advice in a number of books and online videos along with Yorkies post it is sound advice.

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Kristen

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 17:00 »
My advice would be to get on with the digging, particularly if you soil is heavy clay.  Some caveats below though.

I read somewhere earlier that if you can extract moisture from the soil with your hands (i.e. squeeze it and it drips), it's too wet to dig without damaging It. Otherwise, digging should be ok in that respect. Would you folks agree with that?

I think its way too wet at that point, and you need to stop working the soil before it gets to that point.

If you can turn over a spade/fork full of soil, and then bang it with the back of spade/fork and it breaks up then dig it.  That's probably past the point of the "soil sticking to your boots" test, although in other respects I agree that's good advice - not to dig shortly after rain.

If you are digging in winter, thus the ground is "very moist" if not what we might call "too wet to dig" then put a scaffolding board down along the row you are digging and stand on that - it will spread your weight an prevent too much compaction.

If you have clay soil you will get huge benefit from frost action on the soil, that would be my main reason for pressing on with digging.  Ideally it would have been done in the Autumn, but ideally the Christmas presents I bought on line would have turned up in time, but the supplier had to send them three times before Yodel stopped pinching them ... and Christmas was gone ... so Make Do And Mend will have to do.

But:

If the soil has been really well worked in the past then maybe there is no point digging it at all.  A "cover with organic matter" approach will do.  For anything other than "well worked" soil I favour an initial dig, even if the aim is to have a totally no-dig plot. It sorts out drainage and incorporates the organic matter in a manner that will take the worms more than one season if you were to rely on them alone.

Sandy soil can be left. The frost is not so important, compared to clay, and it will drain easily allowing you to get on it early in the Spring.  With heavy soil you won't be able to get on it in the spring anything like soon enough to have it ready for sowing.

Again, with respect to heavy soil, you could cover the bits you haven't dug yet with a tarpaulin - that will keep the rain off it. Ideally let the wind under the tarpaulin, so that the ground doesn't sweat 9which will make it muddy when you work it) and so that the wind will dry it out somewhat.

Quote
I have got a compost heap on the plot, but I inherited it and I have no idea what state it's in at the moment. I don't feel comfortable with using it now

Dig a trench for your runner beans, wide enough for a double row, and chuck the old compost heap material in there. It doesn't matter if it is barely rotted down, or full of weeds etc. It will do a magic job of retaining water that the Beans will love. You'll have plenty of weeds anyway, and a huge crop of beans, and if the beans get a lot of weeds you won't mind too much.  Cover the Bean bed with cardboard, before planting, to give the weeds a hard time (and cover the cardboard with compost / manure - by the end of the season the cardboard will have rotted). [White Goods or Bicycle stores are good for large cardboard boxes; they have to pay for their rubbish to be taken away, so you will be doing them a favour],  Or use some Mypex [plastic] woven weed suppressing membrane, that will last several seasons.

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I plan to keep adding my kitchen waste to it for now

Start a new heap, rather than mixing the two. You'll know what is in yours.

Don't try to cultivate it all at once. Get a small bit started and plant something
[/quote]

I take a different view. If you are fit & able I would cultivate the whole lot; if not, or you are daunted by the size of the task, then I agree to do it in stages.

However, I would take steps to minimise the work through the year.  Most important is mulching which helps to retain moisture, you then have to water less often or not at all (unless we have a drought) and you will have no/few weeds to deal with. As said Cardboard or Mypex, or even a generous layer of Manure/Compost - that will have weed seeds in it, but as they are on the surface they are easily hoed and will then die in the hot sun.

If you don't actually manage to cultivate it all then the fact that it is covered will mean it doesn't grow weeds. You can plant Pumpkin or Squash in vacant areas - they will sprawl over a large area, so benefit from planting a fair distance apart. Spuds are good too - they don't take long to plant, produce loads of foliage (which gives the weeds a hard time) and you can store the crop (Main crop varieties are best for that).  They probably won't keep much past Christmas, so best not to grow "enough to last a whole year" !!

If you discover, over the coming months, that you won't be able to cultivate it all (pressure of work / realisation that its more than you thought / whatever) then sow a Green Manure on it.  That is as good as actual Manure, and will get the soil into good heart for next year.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 17:08 by Kristen »

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TheWhiteRabbit

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Re: digging manure in Jan??
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 23:22 »
I bought a couple of bags of Homebase manure a couple of years ago and where it was used, a huge amount of dock and stinging nettle grew where it hadn't been an issue the previous year. And whilst 200 litres sounds a lot, it actually doesn't go far at all. I took a delivery of 2 tonnes of rotted horse muck a couple of months ago and that didn't go as far as I'd hoped either!

Personally I'd go through that compost pile, separate out what's new(ish) and put the rest on the beds.  The newer stuff could either go in the bottom of a bean trench or go back into the compost pile.


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