[MickyB]

I have a limited supply of well rotted horse manure to use on the plot, from what I understand it is not advisable to spread manure before planting Brassica's, should I put some on the Brassica bed now to give it plenty of time to be worked in to the soil before I plant up the summer crop next year, leave it to later on or just leave the bed un-manured?
The Brassica's are going into the bed that I had potatoes in this year.

[mumofstig]

No reason not to add it now, but if you are going to dig it in, then do it sooner rather than later, to give the soil time to settle. Brassicas grow best planted into firm soil.

[MickyB]

Thanks 

Could you give me an indication on how much I should use.

[Kristen]

How much have you got?

How much does your soil need (is it already very fertile and workable, or is it heavy clay that needs a lot of help to convert into nice workable soil)?

If the soil needs work, and you have plenty of manure, I would put 6" on.  If you don't have much available then perhaps 2"?

Its not the type of material (unless very well rotted) that goes on in a nice evenly deep layer

[MickyB]

I have a large compost bin full which from reading your reply is obviously not enough. I have only had the plot since Feb this year but was told the previous holder had kept it well manured.
The soil is quite sandy and I have just dug every thing over following the removal of this years crop.
Would I be just as well using chicken manure pellets, I have seen some advertised as being 6 - 8 time stronger than 'normal' manure.
I can get hold of more manure but the dilemma is, if I order from the local farmer (cow manure) then I get far more than I need and I have no where to store it a present, if I get it from elsewhere I have to bag it and fetch it in the car and I only have a small car to transport it in.
I purchase a couple of buckets of chicken pellets at the start of the year and added them when I planted and added more a couple of times more during the growing season.
I did notice that they sell 20 kilo bags locally, I think it would be more expensive to use these but on the plus side they are easy to handle.

[Kristen]

The manure applied at this time of the year is mostly to benefit the structure of the soil, not to provide nutrients to feed the plants (next year).  Chicken manure pellets is used mostly to supply nutirents, rather than to improve the soil structure and, applied now, would not have much potency by next season - a lot would be washed out over winter.

Bulky manure based on straw (most probably Horse of Cow) improves the structure of the soil by providing organic material.  This will help retain water, and nutrients, during the growing season next year, cheer up the beneficial bugs living in the soil, increase the population of worms, open up heavy clay soils, and a bunch of other spin-off benefits.

If you can get a bulk delivery from the local farmer (but have nowhere to store it) I would be inclined to put it straight onto the beds as a winter mulch.  It would be better that it is not fresh but if it is from animals housed last Winter it will already have rotted down a lot, whereas if it is from animals that were housed during the summer - unlikely to be for cows as they are more likely to have been out in the fields, so that would pretty much have to be someone's pet pony - then it will be rather fresh, although by next Spring that won't be the case.

[MickyB]

Thanks your explanation helps a lot, I was a bit puzzled when it came to manures and your reply has now made sense of it for me. 
I will fetched a few loads in the car for the coming year's season and look for a more permanent solution for the following year.
My plot is one up from the corner, I am hoping to be able to share a load with the lady on the corner opposite side to me and just barrow up what I need.

[Kristen]

Some allotments arrange a bulk delivery - I think you just need to know when it is coming and turn up on the day with a barrow and shovel.  Dunno if your site does that perhaps?

[MickyB]

Some allotments arrange a bulk delivery - I think you just need to know when it is coming and turn up on the day with a barrow and shovel.  Dunno if your site does that perhaps?

Everyone I have spoken to seems to make their own arrangements, some have a large pile of manure from the local farmer, some are using pigeon manure (is this any good?) others have a supply of fresh chicken manure, it would be a nice idea but I don't think they do it on the site that I am on.

[Kristen]

Pigeon and Chicken manure (or pellets) is a good source of nutrients - particularly Nitrogen - rather than soil conditioning.

I put a small handful under each plant that I plant (e.g. when bedding out plants in the Spring) and then sprinkle some around the plant too, compared to when I used to just plant them, and then add some artificial fertiliser around them, I think the plants come on and develop better more quickly - bit subjective though!

[goodtogrow]

I must be out of date.

Years ago the then HDRA recommended not spreading well-rotted manure at this time of year because of nutrient leaching.  Warm autumn soil causing the manure to break down further and become incorporated into the soil water.

I know that strawy manure was/is spread at this time of year but well-rotted stuff too?  I thought it was the carbon content which improved soil structure?

Trying to make sense of my own limited understanding and the points expressed here can we say that current organic practice does not rely on bulky organic material for plant nutrition but on supplementary organic fertilizers applied in the growing season?

I for one am not sure, which is why I ask.

Tom

[diospyros]

Pigeon and Chicken manure (or pellets) is a good source of nutrients - particularly Nitrogen - rather than soil conditioning.

Thinking on the spot, would it be a good idea to obtain a load of chicken manure and stack it over winter well mixed with straw or some other high fibre material in order to have a bulkier material to spread next growing season?

[Kristen]

I must be out of date.

Not at all I agree with what you say.

For me: I don't want to cultivate the Brassica patch at all, so I spread manure on it in the Autumn so the worms incorporate it over the winter, and I plant into it in the spring without any cultivation.  I think I get more goodness into the soil this way, but the winter rains will inevitably leach nutrients out. I feed the Brassicas in the growing season anyway, so I'm more concerned about manure improving the soil structure than nutrients (perhaps less concerned than I should be)

For other crops I now adopt a similar approach, again because I want to adopt minimal dig.   Beds here tend to only get dug when harvesting spuds or parsnips.  I'm on heavy clay, and time was when I would rough dig, trenching the manure in during the digging, in the Autumn so that winter frost did the work. With slightly raised beds and heavy mulching with manure I have found that the soil condition has improved far more than I would have expected, plus I don't have enough time for the digging, so I've stuck with this approach. However, I have masses of manure from local farmer, so I'm not on a manure-budget and thus may not be comparable with someone who is.

I think its a worthwhile approach for Brassicas at least though to avoid cultivating the ground. Even on my heavy soil the ground is nothing like as firm in the spring if autumn dug, even if I stamp it down at planting time (well ... if it was sopping wet I could get it to form like concrete, but that wouldn't do the soil much good!) and after building the raised beds I had a few seasons of the sprouts being "blown" and then decided to abandon the digging.