[Always Cross]

Hi everyone new member here.  I've just about to take over a veg garden.  I have the chance of getting free horse manure.  What I'd like to know is:  Its going to very fresh so is it ok to dig this straight in now so its ready for planting in spring or has it got to be left lying around for a bit.   

[goodtogrow]

Hi Always Cross.   Straight answer:

Can't see the benefit of digging it in now for next Spring.  Can see the benefit of stacking it and letting it decompose further. It's full of weed seeds.  You might kill them when you compost it.

If it's dung, pure poo, I'd add carbon, brown stuff, twiggy, even dead grass, to make it even better.

Tom

ps:   No need to be Always Cross if you've got free manure.   I lie awake at night wishing someone would give me some.

[Always Cross]

Cross by name but not by nature.  How long do you leave it to compost?

[goodtogrow]

6 months gives me a warm glow, AC - next spring will do nicely.

[Goosegirl]

Hi Always Cross.   Straight answer:
Can't see the benefit of digging it in now for next Spring.  Can see the benefit of stacking it and letting it decompose further. It's full of weed seeds.  You might kill them when you compost it.
If it's dung, pure poo, I'd add carbon, brown stuff, twiggy, even dead grass, to make it even better.

Um - unsure on this. Personally, I would look and see if it is pure poo or needs "brown stuff" as goodtogrow says. If pure poo, get some brown stuff then dig it in on your un-planted land area ready for next spring. Although worm activity will decrease in winter, weather, bacteria, plus other organisms should give you a fine tilth planting medium come next season. I agree that weed seeds will be in it ready to emerge, but one can't always guarantee that composting over winter will completely destroy them.

[Always Cross]

Is straw classed as brown stuff.

[JayG]

Strangely enough it is, even though you may think of it as a green stem which just happens to have dried out (it is, but the dry open texture helps to keep the compost more open to improve the aerobic decomposition overall.)

[goodtogrow]

I like Jayg's answer.

Mmmm, goosegirl.  You have a point.  I'd prefer to believe that composting temperatures, even in winter - cover the heap - are high enough to kill at least some of the seeds.

Not comfortable either with digging in before winter.  "All free nitrates are assumed to be washed out of the soil over winter" is what one book says.

But then I do rely on books more than I oughta. And you've probably arrived at your conclusions from getting your hands dirty, and breaking your fingernails, more than I have.  There's no substitute for experience, on that I think we can all agree.

Tom

[grinling]

not all veg like manured ground.

[BobE]

Cover half the plot.  Make a stack of the remainder.

[3759allen]

if the ground hasn't had much organic matter in it over the years i would put it on like a mulch (as much as you can), to give the soil better fertility for next year, i'm having this trouble at the moment but didn't have time or manure to dig or mulch in.

depending how big the plot is i would cover the mulched ground in black plastic to keep the heat in, weeds down and stop the nutrients washing away.

by the spring the worms should have done the business for you with no need to dig in.

hopefully you can keep some left over to rot down and use it for the plants that like it and would benefit from it more.

[Always Cross]

Thanks for all your replies I think i'll have to dig it in as the plot is in the middle of a council estate so I need to keep the smell down or else people will complain.  Would like to mulch and cover it but money is tight.

[Goosegirl]

I like Jayg's answer.

Mmmm, goosegirl.  You have a point.  I'd prefer to believe that composting temperatures, even in winter - cover the heap - are high enough to kill at least some of the seeds.

Not comfortable either with digging in before winter.  "All free nitrates are assumed to be washed out of the soil over winter" is what one book says.

But then I do rely on books more than I oughta. And you've probably arrived at your conclusions from getting your hands dirty, and breaking your fingernails, more than I have.  There's no substitute for experience, on that I think we can all agree.

Horse manure can be very "hot" when fresh and have seen piles of it with straw steaming on a cold winter's day but, as you said, may only kill SOME of the weed seeds, so be prepared to weed out lots of grass etc in spring if necessary. Your next point about free nitrates - the book states "are ASSUMED to be washed out" i.e. not proven that all are. The manure/straw will do a lot to improve your soil structure by boosting the activity of its organisms, and you can always add nitrogen later on if needed. As to relying on books too much - ditto for me. Any gardening book, local advice and posts on here are only guides based on the experience of the writer. Your experience is unique to you and your situation, soil, aspect, etc, so don't worry. Yup - dirty hands, fingernails a  mess, but you compliment me too much - I just remember when I managed to get a cover of manure/mushrooom compost on my beds before winter - left un-covered - and the joy of feeling this lovely, fine tilth covering of stuff in which to plant was great. As suggested, if you have enough, try both mulch and heap. Know any farmers who can give you black plastic bale sheeting, or old compost bags cut to make sheets with their black insides outward? The latter would be a b****r to weight down though!


Edited to separate quote from reply.

[Totty]

I would use it fresh, mixed with straw and dig it into areas that need it, ie, where your beans and peas will go next year. Make a trench as deep as you dig it and put a load of it in there. Beans will love it.

Totty

[goodtogrow]

Makes sense to only apply it where it's most needed, Totty.  Who amongst us has enough to slosh it around everywhere???

And thanks, goosegirl!  You imply that I'm not a geek!

Woz moved to learn that you felt joy after applying it before winter.  Joy is a Good Thing!  And you make a compelling case for No-dig growing next season.  Am liking your thinking more and more...