[harehatch chooks]

Hi all

Have spent hours trawling through old posts to try to find help, and finally given up, joined allotment chat and decided to post a request myself!

I have 4 ex battery chickens - we picked them up on April 1st (no joke).  This is my first experience of chickens, and all has been fine (and very amusing!) until now.


However, Teresa is not well, and probably hasnt been for at least 3 weeks.

She started off going all ruffled, and her comb started to go purple/black colour.  She was eating a bit but i picked her up and her breast bone seemed really pronounced, so she's lost a lot of weight, but seemed ok apart from a dirty backside.  I googled it and lots of sites pointed towards heart failure and circulation problems.  So we just thought that we'd leave her to it, and she'd pass away naturally if she has a heart problem.

That probably lasted for about a week.  We gave her a couple of warm baths to clean her backside, but it didnt stay clean for long.  Then her comb went pink again, but very pale.  She has become more lethargic, more slow, and about a week ago she was just stood there, closing and opening her eyes.  Again, I thought, 'ah well, that's it, she's had it', and as it was cold outside I brought her inside in a box to make her last few hours more comfortable.  Fed her some scrambled egg and yoghurt, bread, meal worms - she ate them fine, although small portions only.

That was over a week ago.  She now lives in a box inside, with food (ex batt smallholder crumb), and a few treats which she eats occasionally.  If the weather is OK, I put her outside, but recently the other 3 have started attacking her.  Not sure if that is because she is dying, or if its because they no longer spend time with her so she's an outsider (she was always at the bottom of the pecking order before, but they are quite amenable hens, so she never used to get attacked).  now they are quite vicious with her, going for her pale pink comb, so I put her in a separate run.

Her poop is OK ish.  Sometimes we get a small solid one, slight green tinge, but not noticeably different to usual.  Now after a few days inside she has very water poop or wee, with lots of white bits in it.  I'm not sure if that is a symptom, or a reflection of the change/reduction in her diet now she's inside.  She still has a dirty backside.

Again, vast amounts of googling, articles keep saying worms.  I've not wormed them since we got them, but when I tried to get hold of some Flubenvet a few weeks ago, it seems there is a worldwide shortage, and no alternative product.  I've managed to order some pellets which come with flubenvet in them, but they are not due until next week.

I'm not sure what else i can do.  She doesnt seem very happy, but doesnt appear to be on death's door (perhaps I'm just falsely keeping her alive by having her staying inside?).

Things I've thought about - egg peritonitis or egg bound?  i think we will give her a proper warm bath at the weekend (we rarely see her during the day as we're at work, so dont want to wake her up for a late night bath!) but I've had a feel of her body and its not obvious that she's got anything stuck.  Not gone in her vent yet - but not sure I'd know what I'm feeling if I did!  She looks quite big, but I think that's ruffled feathers rather than swollen abdomen.

Any advice gratefully received - sorry for such a detailed post, but I know you experts like to have the whole story!

Thanks

[helens-hens]

If she has been unwell for 3 weeks I really would take her to the vets if you can, she could be suffering.

How is her appetite now? The watery poo with white bits could well be to do with her reduction in appetite. This will also give her a dirty bum. The green tinge I think can be to do either with a liver problem (e.g. infection) or possibly symptomatic of lack of eating. Is she drinking OK?

Worms are a possibility, do you know when they were last wormed?

The others may be attacking her either because she has been separated for a while (and so the pecking order is 'reshuffled') or they may sense weakness if she has been unwell.

Hope this helps, but again, as this has been going on for a while I would be tempted to get professional advice. Do yiu have a poultry friendly vet near you?

[PaulineM]

Hi
My first thought was worms, your vet could give you something for worms if you can't wait for your pellets to arrive (I would advise not waiting)
Also my Isa hen who is about 2 years old now behaves this way when she is passing a soft egg. Although it usually passes in a day.
They can get very lethargic when they are moulting.

I also have to apologise as I did have a little chuckle at the idea that perhaps your hen has your wrapped around her little finger

[harehatch chooks]

She's still not well.  She pecks at a bit of food, (still likes meal worms but not fussed on other things which she used to go wild for) but doesnt eat anywhere near enough.  Stands around looking sorry for herself.  Hard to tell how much she's drinking - her water bowl was empty this morning, but chickens are so messy its just as likely that she tipped it over!  I've seen her have a quick slurp now and then, so she's not avoiding it.  The green tinge to poop is not really noticeable or consistent, so not sure that really is a clue to her illness.

We got the girls from BHWT in April - and have not wormed them since.  not sure when they would have been wormed before then.  Am desperate to worm them but due to lack of Flubenvet I cant. Very frustrating.  None of the others show any signs of illness, but that doesnt help me diagnose Teresa's problem.

We havent taken her to the vet mainly for financial reasons.  I just wish she'd perk up, she's a funny little thing, always been a sandwich short of a picnic, if you know what I mean!

Thanks anyway for your help...

Oh - just read the new post PaulineM.  I agree, she does have a life of riley at the moment in her nice warm box, fed all the treats in the world etc.  But she just looks so unhappy and ruffled, and she is pretty thin, so I know she's not really putting it on!

Apparently the pellets are dispatched, so might arrive tomorrow.  I dont think it can be an egg thing really, as its been going on for so many weeks.  I did wonder about moulting, but she hasnt dropped any feathers in her new luxury accommodation, which she's been in for a week, so dont think its that.

[PaulineM]

Hi

I have only had to get vet help once (so far) for a chest infection but when I contacted the vet they diagnosed them over the phone and only charged for the antibiotic, so it cost less than £20.
Have you tried mashed banana with live yoghurt, I give mine this if i'm trying to get something into them, like limestone flour.
Also when mine were sick I ended up giving them defrosted sweetcorn and peas, I also ended up gently syringing fluid into one.
Good luck

[joyfull]

I know this comment is going to upset you but you should take her to a vet - it is illegal to allow an animal to suffer. You wouldn't let a dog or cat suffer so why let your hen suffer. Even the BHWT tell you to visit your vet if your hen is unwell.

[joyfull]

They also advise worming 3-4 times a year.

Have you read this thread?

[Aunt Sally]

I have to say that a sick hen must be treated or culled.  Leaving her suffering in a box is inflicting cruelty on the poor bird. 

[sunshineband]

I hope you take your hen to the vet's today.

She is obviously very unwell and getting worse, and needs either immediate treatment or, if there is nothing now that will save her, a humane end to her suffering.

I do not keep chooks so in no way could offer any kind of care advice, but what I have said would be true for any animal for which you have the responsibility for their welfare.

Please le tus know what the vet recommends

PS I only read you post as your location is relatively local to me

[harehatch chooks]

Joyful – thank you for the link to that article, although I have to say that it can be a bit upsetting if you’re not careful.  When you are so worried about one of your hens, the last thing you want to read is about how useless new poultry keepers are!  Not everyone is an expert on an animal when they first start keeping them.  We spent a lot of time researching online about the best conditions, best runs (built our own large walk in run and hen house), best food (for ex  batts) etc to provide before we applied to the BHWT for the girls.  We just wanted to give them a nice end to their lives after their original ordeal - and up until now I think they’ve been having a ball!  Our lives have changed ridiculously since we got them, and our friends laugh at how chicken-oriented our existence is now, to make sure they are OK, watered, protected, clean etc. 

There’s tonnes of info online, so it can be confusing, but as part of my research I read that worming was recommended from 2-4 times per year, ideally in Autumn.  So I have been trying to arrange to do that now I’ve had then 6 months, but due to the lack of Flubenvet I’ve not managed to do so.  I regularly look through their poos (see how my life has changed!) but not seen any evidence of worms, although I understand it would have to be really bad to see them.

If I thought she was badly suffering I would make arrangements to have her put down.  However, she keeps showing signs of perking up, so I haven’t taken her to the vet – e.g. when we first brought her inside she brightened up, so I thought she just needed some warmth and R&R.  Last weekend she was preening, wandering around the garden and pecking at the ground and doing that funny sunbathing thing with her wing stretched out – she looked pretty contented.  I thought she was on the road to recovery, but the next day she wasn’t quite so bright.  She also wolfs down meal worms when offered – although I’m worried that this is all she eats, so not exactly a balanced diet (she ate a chunk of cooked pumpkin yesterday though).  Yesterday she was wandering around her outside run – I try and get her outside for a couple of hours if I can, although its difficult with this miserable weather.  As I type I can hear her pecking at her crumb, scratching away in her (large 4x2 foot) box and squeaking a bit, and she just had a drink. Seems quite perky this morning...

This forum is full of helpful comments about treating your hen at home, and as my own vet knows nothing about poultry (although knows how to charge me nearly £1k a year for medicines for my cat’s heart condition!) I thought I’d do my best with help from others, while she’s neither improving nor deteriorating.

Sorry if this comes across as a bit defensive but that article made me feel quite rubbish and I think its a little unfair.  Nobody's perfect.   I read other posts asking for help and everyone usually seems kind and helpful.  But following your advice I will find a poultry friendly vet and see if they can help.  And thanks for the tip about mashed up banana PaulineM – Teresa’s never had a banana before so we’ll see how that goes…!

[joyfull]

have you looked here :-
http://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-vets
or here:- http://wiki.omlet.co.uk/index.php/Chicken_Friendly_Vets#Berkshire
or here:- http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=26140.0

When a hen shows signs of illness then they really are very ill.
If there isn't a local vets that can treat poultry then get back in touch with BHWT who may know of one near you.
However saying that you have not taken her to a vet because of financial reasons in my mind shows a lack of forethought - did you never consider that they would get ill just like any other animal? The reason farmers get rid of their birds between 52 and 72 weeks is because they will then start to get problems associated with an ageing hen - commercial hybrids often only live for 3 years.
I know I come across as being harsh but we are dealing with an animals life here and no animal should be left to suffer.

[harehatch chooks]

Thank you for the links - I've already contacted a vet from the list on the BHWT website (which I see is also on the omlet list) and am waiting for them to get back to me.

When I said 'financial reasons' I didnt mean that I wasnt going to go to the vet at all.  Blimey - spent a fortune on them so far so one vet's bill isnt going to be a problem!

I have had experiences with vets in the past who will try anything (at vast expense) to keep alive an animal which should really be left to pass away (or helped along to be humane).  I have also had experience with vets who are too quick to put animals down and not give them a chance (after which they recovered).  When we got the chickens we decided that we would not get too attached to them (yeah, right, that didnt work out too well!) and would not go OTT to keep them alive at any cost (both quality of life for the bird and financial).  Its not everyone's view, but it is mine from experience.

There are plenty of people on here who give a little TLC to a chicken and it gets better, and plenty who give TLC and it gets worse and dies.  Either way, with Teresa, the TLC thing went on longer than I thought so that's why I was wanting some advice.  As there are no other thoughts or advice on what could be wrong with her from forum members, my next step is the vet.

[ANHBUC]

We all turn to the forum for advice and guidance.  Sometimes it is quicker than going to the vets but with something that is prolonged the vet is needed. 

In the mean time pureed apple, carrots, garlic and water might perk her up.  It is just a tonic and not medicine but might help if she is not eating enough.  It is supposed to help appetite.  My broody bantam had it when she had a cold, the vet prescribed baytril. 

Once you have Teresa sorted it would be an idea for you to look for a course in humane culling.  It is not pleasant thing to have to do but is not as difficult if you know you are easing a birds suffering.  If you can't do it yourself find someone local who you can go to when you know the deed needs to be done.

Happychicks has the layers pellets with flubenvet in stock in 5kg bags if she needs worming.

www.happychicks.co.uk/mall/productpage.cfm/Happychicksshop/_FLU5/226484/Layers%20Pellets%20with%20FLUBENVET%205%20percent%20WORMER%20pre%20mixed%205kg%20POM%20VPS

The vet may also prescribe something for the worms which would work quicker.  I understand that the products are not licenced for poultry but some vets will prescribe.  If you have digital scales weigh Teresa and make a note of how many grams she is.  This will be helpful to the vet and less stressful for Teresa.

Good luck.   

[helens-hens]

Glad you have managed to get in contact with a vet. I know from personal experience it can be hard to judge the point when you need to pay them a visit, particularly when you are relatively new to it all.

For future reference, one product I think is well worth having in the cupboard for the occasion when a hen is looking off colour is Avipro Plus. You can mix this into their water (or food) and it contains probiotics and nutrients. It is particularly useful if the hen is off her food and it is OK for the other hens in your flock to have. It was originally prescribed for 1 of my girls by a vet but you can get it online.

Good luck with Teresa & let us know how she gets on.

[harehatch chooks]

Thanks all -

Teresa currently violently demolishing a bit of cucumber and more mealy worms - showing a bit of attitude!  Have a vets apt this afternoon - hopefully she wont mind the 30 minute journey each way poor thing.  We've just had our little time outside and she's the same as before - no better but no worse.

I dont think I'd be able to cull any of my own animals - I even struggle killing a snail (I usually lob it over the fence, but apparently they have a homing instinct, which is why my veg were so awful this year!).  Might try to find a nice farmer or local person though - I'm just worried I'd do it wrong and cause more pain, even if I did a course in it.  Thanks for the advice though.

Avipro sounds useful - I'll look out for some to add to my growing cupboard of chicken stuff.  They kinda take over your life dont they!?