[Trillium]

I bought a high end stainless spade with oak handle and immediately asked the clerk how to sharpen it. She replied that with hers, she simply runs the edge up and down over a brick and the edge becomes very sharp. I would think, in a pinch, that a hoe would sharpen just as easily on a brick as on a fancy piece of sharpening stone. I'd carry the latter around except I have so many clothes with pockets that I'd never find the blinking thing when I needed it  

[Tinbasher]

spear n jackson tried to make a high carbon garden set .. failed cos it broke under stress back to steel they went ...

What do you mean by a high carbon set?  Surely not pure carbon, as in carbon fibre, as in fishing rods.  Carbon fibre is very strong compared to its weight and will bend alarmingly compared to a metal, but is still very brittle and wouldn't withstand a fraction of the stresses a garden spade would give.

So high carbon steel then?  But 'back to steel they went' you say.  Confusing.  They probably tried (as they will do all the time in Research & Development) to make a higher carbon content steel than than the carbon steel they had as a standard and fiddled around with the heat treatment process as well, but discovered that the grade they were using was best after all.  With the dozens of variables, particularly trace elements and the variation in heat treatment for every 'steel recipe', the possibilities are mind-boggling.  A whole load of R & D will have been done over decades by a long-established company such as S & J.

I wouldn't mind a play in the Spear & Jackson machining, forging and heat-treatment rooms.

[Tinbasher]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

I would disagree that proper spades, even some shovels, and forks are just pressed steel, in other words mild steel.  They wouldn't last 2 mins and would deform out of shape the first time they were forced against heavy clay or even a submerged brick.  The only consolation is that they would deform rather than snap, as mild steel is quite malleable (low carbon) which would be safer.  Hoes may well be pressed mild steel.  The duty intended doesn't require tool steels. Spades & forks for £2.99 may well be mild steel, but which serious worker would buy those?  It's obvious in the price. Though see below.

Decent spades and forks will be made out of carbon or alloy tool steels, forged and then heat treated.  The grade used and the treatment will be geared towards Toughness more, or just as much as Hardness, though the 2 properties tend to go together to some degree.  I'm not sure what grades are used (now's the time to research what I maybe should already know), but I suspect a silicon-manganese carbon steel would be a good material.  This is the grade used for vehicle springs, including leaf-springs.  Very tough, fairly hard, will bend without deformation. Can be sucessfully heat-treated.

A tempered stainless steel spade?  Stainless steel isn't hardened and tempered in the same way as a carbon steel.  The toughest stainless steels are precipitation-hardened, different entirely to heat and quench methods.  There are moreover, 3 general classes of stainless - austenitic (commonest and non-magnetic), ferritic (cutlery, knives, surgical instruments and magnetic) and martensitic (toughest, hardest, least corrosion-resistant and magnetic).   I'm not sure what my spade is, but a test with a magnet later today will give a clue.

I'm sure one of the major UK tool suppliers will supply a properly forged & hardened stainless spade and fork.  It depends how much you wish to pay.  The ultimate grade made the ultimate way may well these days be too expensive to justify production as there will be little demand, although in the case of the humble spade, I'm sure this won't be so.  

Whilst I agree that older equipment (in anything, including antique furniture) tends to be heavier and better, (principally because labour costs were so low thus allowing a luxury in material choice) this isn't to say that such things aren't possible today.  In the case of metals and particularly stainless steel, there are far superior blends and processes available than there were in yesteryear.  Some of the super-alloys as fiddled around with in the nuclear industry and by such folk as NASA are very impressive though this would be an area where costs exceeded potential demand.  British tools & equipment were the finest around in what was known as the Workshop of the World.  The principle aim was fitness for purpose, longevity and ability to maintain.  Cost of production in Labour & Materials was a secondary consideration.  Due to the modern world (shrinking resources and mainly higher labour costs), these principles have been sadly abandoned.  Also, if you make something that does the job and lasts forever, nobody will come back for another purchase!

Disproving though the theory that cheap is always bad, I'll say again that I picked up first a stainless fork, then months later a stainless spade from Aldi and both were less than a tenner.  Of course, I studied and hefted them carefully before buying but on the whole, it wasn't just a case of they're worth 8 quid or so, but that they seem they'll do the job.  And they have.  Aldi have some good stuff - you just have to wait till things come along as they have a 'specials day' every thurs and sunday.  I'm there every week, rooting about. Of course, the tools may well not be UK, but German like the company, but no fools themselves the Germans when it comes to engineering.

[Tinbasher]

I bought a high end stainless spade with oak handle and immediately asked the clerk how to sharpen it. She replied that with hers, she simply runs the edge up and down over a brick and the edge becomes very sharp. I would think, in a pinch, that a hoe would sharpen just as easily on a brick as on a fancy piece of sharpening stone. I'd carry the latter around except I have so many clothes with pockets that I'd never find the blinking thing when I needed it  

A brick!!?  My God, you're talking to the workshop of the world here.  D'you think we're still living in caves?     Get yerself a medium sharpening stone or a file.  They aren't fancy pieces, they're essential tools.  Any salesman that told me to sharpen tools with a brick would never live it down.

[Tinbasher]

Yes I totaly agree with you and MKH, I keep looking around for a decent old hoe that can go on a nice wooden handle, not a nasty cold metal one

I think both my hoes had metal handles when new, which were rapidly removed (drill out a rivet or two) and substituted by wooden handles.  Brush 'steels' (why are they called that when they're wooden?) are a favourite to use though the fatter versions tend to be the better fit for tool ends.  I cannabilised one of those wind-breaks for use on the beach -  a number of wooden poles with fabric stretched across.  The poles were just the right diameter, fatter than ordinary brush steels.

As regards spades though, and maybe forks, heavy steel tubing is best for shafts and handles as it gives the tool some weight and driving force.  Inch and a qtr nominal-bore steam pipe is best, perfect fit for the hands and cold enough to make you work fast.  I haven't yet modified my stainless spade (hardwood) or stainless fork (Plastic over stainless tube) shafts yet though, but my veteran steel digging spade has had a steam pipe steel shaft fitted for about 15 years and has excavated literally hundreds of tons.

[PinkTequila]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made from heavy stainless steel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

I would disagree that proper spades, even some shovels, and forks are just pressed steel, in other words mild steel.  They wouldn't last 2 mins and would deform out of shape the first time they were forced against heavy clay or even a submerged brick.  The only consolation is that they would deform rather than snap, as mild steel is quite malleable (low carbon) which would be safer.  Hoes may well be pressed mild steel.  The duty intended doesn't require tool steels. Spades & forks for £2.99 may well be mild steel, but which serious worker would buy those?  It's obvious in the price. Though see below.

Decent spades and forks will be made out of carbon or alloy tool steels, forged and then heat treated.  The grade used and the treatment will be geared towards Toughness more, or just as much as Hardness, though the 2 properties tend to go together to some degree.  I'm not sure what grades are used (now's the time to research what I maybe should already know), but I suspect a silicon-manganese carbon steel would be a good material.  This is the grade used for vehicle springs, including leaf-springs.  Very tough, fairly hard, will bend without deformation. Can be sucessfully heat-treated.

A tempered stainless steel spade?  Stainless steel isn't hardened and tempered in the same way as a carbon steel.  The toughest stainless steels are precipitation-hardened, different entirely to heat and quench methods.  There are moreover, 3 general classes of stainless - austenitic (commonest and non-magnetic), ferritic (cutlery, knives, surgical instruments and magnetic) and martensitic (toughest, hardest, least corrosion-resistant and magnetic).   I'm not sure what my spade is, but a test with a magnet later today will give a clue.

I'm sure one of the major UK tool suppliers will supply a properly forged & hardened stainless spade and fork.  It depends how much you wish to pay.  The ultimate grade made the ultimate way may well these days be too expensive to justify production as there will be little demand, although in the case of the humble spade, I'm sure this won't be so.  

Whilst I agree that older equipment (in anything, including antique furniture) tends to be heavier and better, (principally because labour costs were so low thus allowing a luxury in material choice) this isn't to say that such things aren't possible today.  In the case of metals and particularly stainless steel, there are far superior blends and processes available than there were in yesteryear.  Some of the super-alloys as fiddled around with in the nuclear industry and by such folk as NASA are very impressive though this would be an area where costs exceeded potential demand.  British tools & equipment were the finest around in what was known as the Workshop of the World.  The principle aim was fitness for purpose, longevity and ability to maintain.  Cost of production in Labour & Materials was a secondary consideration.  Due to the modern world (shrinking resources and mainly higher labour costs), these principles have been sadly abandoned.  Also, if you make something that does the job and lasts forever, nobody will come back for another purchase!

Disproving though the theory that cheap is always bad, I'll say again that I picked up first a stainless fork, then months later a stainless spade from Aldi and both were less than a tenner.  Of course, I studied and hefted them carefully before buying but on the whole, it wasn't just a case of they're worth 8 quid or so, but that they seem they'll do the job.  And they have.  Aldi have some good stuff - you just have to wait till things come along as they have a 'specials day' every thurs and sunday.  I'm there every week, rooting about. Of course, the tools may well not be UK, but German like the company, but no fools themselves the Germans when it comes to engineering.

I am very pleased that you have found a good spade from Aldi. However,  you will find that most spades on the UK market are welded together, Joseph Bentley spades for example are very poorly made as just one example. Bulldog tools top range are solid forged, only the professional range from Spear and Jackson is not stuck together and is made properley. I saw some stainless steel spades in Aldi not too long ago and was not that impressed as they appeared not to be made from one piece of steel. Anyway I wasn't too keen on the handles. I think unfortunately that the cost of production makes the best spade possible no longer viable to make as no one makes it anymore. An Elwell spade from 40 years ago would last a lifetime and more I think that can not be said for any spades made today.

[shaun]

the soil sharpens mine  

[Tinbasher]

I am very pleased that you have found a good spade from Aldi. However,  you will find that most spades on the UK market are welded together, Joseph Bentley spades for example are very poorly made as just one example. Bulldog tools top range are solid forged, only the professional range from Spear and Jackson is not stuck together and is made properley. I saw some stainless steel spades in Aldi not too long ago and was not that impressed as they appeared not to be made from one piece of steel. Anyway I wasn't too keen on the handles. I think unfortunately that the cost of production makes the best spade possible no longer viable to make as no one makes it anymore. An Elwell spade from 40 years ago would last a lifetime and more I think that can not be said for any spades made today.

I must admit I haven't studied garden tools overmuch and you're no doubt correct in what you say.  I don't know the make of the blade and shank of my veteran spade, but whatever handle it had was swapped for steam pipe yonks ago and it's never failed yet.  For proper hole digging in unknown ground, then even that spade won't do and a delver, sometimes called trench spade, is the one to go for in my experience.  More than that and it's the Kango hammer-chisel, road-breaking thingy for me.

I'm glad you mentioned Bulldog as they're down the road from me in Wigan and I do believe they have a forge there.  I have a comprehensive catalogue somewhere, a few years old, from fiddling about with cricket grounds days.  I'll have to dig ( ) it out later.  I've always 'come across' spades and shovels over the years, and apart from a 30 quid delver, the Aldi varieties were the first ones I'd ever formally purchased.  Which is probably why I'm making a big deal about them.   I must admit that 7 or 8 quid each sounds suspiciously too good to be true, and I accept that Bulldog or S & J's finest would no doubt be much better, though your pocket would know about it.  The Aldi spade hasn't seen too much duty as I can't ever forgo the veteran, but it's certainly not a one-job wonder.  If anything goes it may be the wooden handle or its rivets in the shank, but I'll be ready for that with a length of steam pipe if it does.  It's still shiny and looks good, as if I'm one of those gardeners off the telly.    The fork though has done quite a bit and hasn't deformed at all and the shank and shaft are still good. I have high hopes for it.

I first properly tackled my back garden of 27 ft x 10 ft around the Millenium Year. I don't have a front garden.  The back 'lawn' was by this time a meadow, beyond redemption.  It consisted of about a spade depth of ok-ish soil, then solid clay, even blue clay at a depth of 18" and carrying on for ever.  It was so consistent and solid it may well have been worth summat to a potter.  There were tons of bricks and half bricks and some lovely large smooth pebbles mixed in (from house-building days) but they were easy to isolate.  I decided to excavate and decided to go 30" down all over, in three 9' x 10' stages.  Phew.  It's a total of 75 cubic yards, with clay weighing in at a minimum of a ton a cube, more likely 2 tons when wet, which was always.  So approx 75 - 150 tons were removed and all with the veteran spade, which never deformed once and is still in service.  It took me 3 years of weekends mind.  I did have to dig it out of the ever-increasing pit into a barrow, wheel it to a flatback, shovel it onto the vehicle, then shovel it all off again at the tip or near the stream at work (as a flood defence).  So up to 450 tons man-handled about from A to B.  Should I get a medal?    At times in winter, I had clay pits, perfectly smooth-bottomed and sealed and containing 18" of rainwater and have had to get the wellies on and bale out with a bucket before another sunday's digging.  It was all carefully refilled, with broken brick (no shortage of those) and some stone, then coarse sand to 6" deep, then 24" of good topsoil and loads of compo and manure were added.  I also put a sink-hole filled with brick in each of the 3 stages, about 18" deep. So that's that and I'd never do it all again without machinery.  It's never ever been walked on since though except by the odd pesky cat.  As a result, any fork will now go through it like butter.  Like on telly even.  

[muntjac]

heavy duty digging its a graft spade fer me  

[shaun]

heavy duty digging its a graft spade fer me  

i found a brand new spear n jackson grafter the other day it was leaning against a gate so i gave it a new home in my shed  

[Tinbasher]

heavy duty digging its a graft spade fer me  

Is that a delver?  Long, slim, curved blade with 2 'ears'?  Different names in different places.

[muntjac]

sure is mate ,, also i have a norfolk long spade for rabbiting    classic tools  

[shaun]

yes its called a delver and its also called a spud planter

[muntjac]

heavy duty digging its a graft spade fer me  

i found a brand new spear n jackson grafter the other day it was leaning against a gate so i gave it a new home in my shed  

 this site does not condone or support garden gnomes taking tools other than fishing rods for the occasional settling down at a local goldfish bowl  :roll:

[shaun]

well if i didnt take it then the next person would have  :roll: finders keepers