[mushroom]

I think that's enough to be going on with.  Sorry. :roll:

That was very interesting and informative, thank you! I dunno what you're saying sorry for there.

I have yet to find a regular hoe that is made of stainless steel though. I had a good look around homebase yesterday. Later on today, I'll go to the plot and look at the edge of the dutch hoe. One thing (or rather 3 things) I haven't got is (are) a sharpening file, sharpening stone and oil for the sharpening stone. I guess regular bicycle oil will do for the sharpening stone.

[Bobby T]

Tinbasher   Although I did not ask the original question thank you for a learned and comprehensive answer that even I could understand.
   It is very difficult for anyone who knows their subject to explain it to a layperson. Thanks for taking the trouble.   Bob

[gobs]

If you have got time for car boot sales, old tools tend to be very good.

[leeky]

Interesting stuff.  

[Tinbasher]

I think that's enough to be going on with.  Sorry. :roll:

That was very interesting and informative, thank you! I dunno what you're saying sorry for there.

I have yet to find a regular hoe that is made of stainless steel though. I had a good look around homebase yesterday. Later on today, I'll go to the plot and look at the edge of the dutch hoe. One thing (or rather 3 things) I haven't got is (are) a sharpening file, sharpening stone and oil for the sharpening stone. I guess regular bicycle oil will do for the sharpening stone.

The apology was for the length of the post, but thanks to all who enjoyed it.

I've never seen a hoe made of stainless. Unlike a spade or fork, a hoe doesn't really need the strength that stainless steel would give.  A hoe is only a light furrowing tool or for shallow slicing of soft stems.  My two hoes are probably just formed mild steel, which is still adequate for general purpose work. They both have painted blades to give some protection against corrosion.  I can't remember sharpening them yet, probably down to the fact that I don't use them enough.    A file would suffice for tickling the edges back to true.  They dont need to be razor sharp.  Anything that sharp would rapidly lose it's edge anyway afer a few pases through earth.

I got both my stainless steel fork and digging spade from Aldi and both were under a tenner each.  Good place is Aldi for tools, if I'm allowed to say that on here.

Decent files should be the best part of a tenner to buy.  Get a long one (12" or more) as there are obviously more teeth and it'll last longer.  A plain flat file should be ok for most garden tools.  If you hunt about you should find one that is coarse on one side and finer on the other.  A coarse file obviously removes material quicker, whilst a finer file will give be able to give a keener edge, though not as keen as a fine stone.  NEVER use a file without its handle.  If the handle comes loose or comes off, replace it immediately.  I've seen it once live and a few times on safety videos, where the pointed tang on which the handle should be fitted has ended up straight through the user's palm.  Nasty.  Don't use a brand new file straightaway on steel, especially hardened steel.  New files should be 'broken-in' on a piece of copper or brass for a few minutes per side. Files are made of high carbon tool steel that is hardened to the maximum and then only lightly tempered.  As a result they are quite brittle and unyielding to any bending force or sudden shock.  Dropping a file onto a hard surface can result in breakage as can a sudden blow with a hammer or such.

Stones come in all kinds of cut from very coarse to very fine. A fine stone is best for giving a keen edge to such things as knives but for garden tools, such an edge isn't really necessary.  A coarse to medium stone should be ok.  In general, a good file will be ok for most jobs.  I have a coarse (ish) stone that is square in section but tapering on all 4 sides along its length and with a plastic handle fitted.  Its about 10" long and was only a few quid, but I can't remember where I got it from several years ago.

The best oil for stones is sewing-machine oil, or failing that any light oil.  Car engine oil is too thick and heavy.  Light cycle oil is ok.  The oil is only to ease the passage of the blade across the stone (or vice-versa) and to carry away the tiny pieces of stone and metal that are removed.  Coarse stones don't really need oil.  It is only the finer stones that can become choked (clogged).  In the absence of any oil, water will be ok to use on a stone.  In situations when there isn't even any water close to hand a good blob of saliva will do!

Tempering for those that wish to know is a light compromise to hardened steels.  First the steel is heated to at least 'cherry-red' or even bright red, which will be somewhere around or above 1000 degrees C.  It is then rapidly quenched, usually in oil or sometimes in brine or even plain cold water.  It will then be dead hard (depending on carbon content).  The piece is then lightly polished (wire wool or light filing) and then very gently heated again, but this time only lightly up to a maximum of about 500 degrees Farenheit.  As the steel is brought slowly up to temp, the bright surface starts to discolour, first to a light straw colour, through darker straw, then green and eventually purple and finally blue.  Beyond this and the steel is Annealed (softened) and the hardening achieved is lost.  Tempering is just relieving a little the fully hard conditon.  Various tools have a recommended temper - the lower the temperature, the lighter the temper (and the surface colour) and the harder the piece. The colours produced are quite an accurate guide to temperature and can be used in small heat treatment jobs, though obviously in mass production in industry, carefully controlled furnaces are used.  You may have seen these colours on steel, most probably when a piece has been accidentally 'burnt'. We've all done it, including myself.  You may also have seen them in drill cuttings when the removed swarf comes curling out of the hole, in all sorts of colours.  Why doesn't the drill bit soften?  Good drill bits and other high-speed tools are best made out of High-Speed Steel (HSS), another carefully produced alloy steel that can withstand very high temps.  But that's another story.

Thanks.

[Tinbasher]

I think that's enough to be going on with.  Sorry. :roll:

That was very interesting and informative, thank you! I dunno what you're saying sorry for there.

I have yet to find a regular hoe that is made of stainless steel though. I had a good look around homebase yesterday. Later on today, I'll go to the plot and look at the edge of the dutch hoe. One thing (or rather 3 things) I haven't got is (are) a sharpening file, sharpening stone and oil for the sharpening stone. I guess regular bicycle oil will do for the sharpening stone.

The apology was for the length of the post, but thanks to all who enjoyed it.

I've never seen a hoe made of stainless. Unlike a spade or fork, a hoe doesn't really need the strength that stainless steel would give.  A hoe is only a light furrowing tool or for shallow slicing of soft stems.  My two hoes are probably just formed mild steel, which is still adequate for general purpose work. They both have painted blades to give some protection against corrosion.  I can't remember sharpening them yet, probably down to the fact that I don't use them enough.    A file would suffice for tickling the edges back to true.  They dont need to be razor sharp.  Anything that sharp would rapidly lose it's edge anyway afer a few pases through earth.

I got both my stainless steel fork and digging spade from Aldi and both were under a tenner each.  Good place is Aldi for tools, if I'm allowed to say that on here.

Decent files should be the best part of a tenner to buy.  Get a long one (12" or more) as there are obviously more teeth and it'll last longer.  A plain flat file should be ok for most garden tools.  If you hunt about you should find one that is coarse on one side and finer on the other.  A coarse file obviously removes material quicker, whilst a finer file will give be able to give a keener edge, though not as keen as a fine stone.  NEVER use a file without its handle.  If the handle comes loose or comes off, replace it immediately.  I've seen it once live and a few times on safety videos, where the pointed tang on which the handle should be fitted has ended up straight through the user's palm.  Nasty.  Don't use a brand new file straightaway on steel, especially hardened steel.  New files should be 'broken-in' on a piece of copper or brass for a few minutes per side. Files are made of high carbon tool steel that is hardened to the maximum and then only lightly tempered.  As a result they are quite brittle and unyielding to any bending force or sudden shock.  Dropping a file onto a hard surface can result in breakage as can a sudden blow with a hammer or such.

Stones come in all kinds of cut from very coarse to very fine. A fine stone is best for giving a keen edge to such things as knives but for garden tools, such an edge isn't really necessary.  A coarse to medium stone should be ok.  In general, a good file will be ok for most jobs.  I have a coarse (ish) stone that is square in section but tapering on all 4 sides along its length and with a plastic handle fitted.  Its about 10" long and was only a few quid, but I can't remember where I got it from several years ago.

The best oil for stones is sewing-machine oil, or failing that any light oil.  Car engine oil is too thick and heavy.  Light cycle oil is ok.  The oil is only to ease the passage of the blade across the stone (or vice-versa) and to carry away the tiny pieces of stone and metal that are removed.  Coarse stones don't really need oil.  It is only the finer stones that can become choked (clogged).  In the absence of any oil, water will be ok to use on a stone.  In situations when there isn't even any water close to hand a good blob of saliva will do!

Tempering for those that wish to know is a light compromise to hardened steels.  First the steel is heated to at least 'cherry-red' or even bright red, which will be somewhere around or above 1000 degrees C.  It is then rapidly quenched, usually in oil or sometimes in brine or even plain cold water.  It will then be dead hard (depending on carbon content).  The piece is then lightly polished (wire wool or light filing) and then very gently heated again, but this time only lightly up to a maximum of about 500 degrees Farenheit.  As the steel is brought slowly up to temp, the bright surface starts to discolour, first to a light straw colour, through darker straw, then green and eventually purple and finally blue.  Beyond this and the steel is Annealed (softened) and the hardening achieved is lost.  Tempering is just relieving a little the fully hard conditon.  Various tools have a recommended temper - the lower the temperature, the lighter the temper (and the surface colour) and the harder the piece. The colours produced are quite an accurate guide to temperature and can be used in small heat treatment jobs, though obviously in mass production in industry, carefully controlled furnaces are used.  You may have seen these colours on steel, most probably when a piece has been accidentally 'burnt'. We've all done it, including myself.  You may also have seen them in drill cuttings when the removed swarf comes curling out of the hole, in all sorts of colours.  Why doesn't the drill bit soften?  Good drill bits and other high-speed tools are best made out of High-Speed Steel (HSS), another carefully produced alloy steel that can withstand very high temps.  But that's another story.

Thanks.

[Tinbasher]

I think that's enough to be going on with.  Sorry. :roll:

That was very interesting and informative, thank you! I dunno what you're saying sorry for there.

I have yet to find a regular hoe that is made of stainless steel though. I had a good look around homebase yesterday. Later on today, I'll go to the plot and look at the edge of the dutch hoe. One thing (or rather 3 things) I haven't got is (are) a sharpening file, sharpening stone and oil for the sharpening stone. I guess regular bicycle oil will do for the sharpening stone.

The apology was for the length of the post, but thanks to all who enjoyed it.

Oops sorry again for double posting.  Blame the PC for the glitches.

[PinkTequila]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

[mkhenry]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

Im glad you posted Tequila,so often people are lured by so called modern stainless steel garden tools.In fact they are often little more than as you say "shiny tat".  I aways try to buy old and true garden tools,very often paying half the price or less than the modern equivalent.  And they are far better quality.

Over the years I have given away lots of tools to budding gardeners hoping to carry on the old traditions.When I replace them its always with the great older well made tools.

[gobs]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

Im glad you posted Tequila,so often people are lured by so called modern stainless steel garden tools.In fact they are often little more than as you say "shiny tat".  I aways try to buy old and true garden tools,very often paying half the price or less than the modern equivalent.  And they are far better quality.

Over the years I have given away lots of tools to budding gardeners hoping to carry on the old traditions.When I replace them its always with the great older well made tools.

see previous posting by someone on car boot sales. :roll:  :roll:

[mkhenry]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

Im glad you posted Tequila,so often people are lured by so called modern stainless steel garden tools.In fact they are often little more than as you say "shiny tat".  I aways try to buy old and true garden tools,very often paying half the price or less than the modern equivalent.  And they are far better quality.

Over the years I have given away lots of tools to budding gardeners hoping to carry on the old traditions.When I replace them its always with the great older well made tools.

see previous posting by someone on car boot sales. :roll:  :roll:

I dont quite get your point Gobs,if you want to play the pevious post game then see my post on this subject many months ago  Or are you saying that once you have posted a comment then nobody else can post a similar comment.

Or are you saying that we should submit our postings to you in case you may have made a similar comment before.

Can anybody else understand what Gobs is saying or is it just me.    

[richyrich7]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

Yes I totaly agree with you and MKH, I keep looking around for a decent old hoe that can go on a nice wooden handle, not a nasty cold metal one  

Glad you decided to post BTW and welcome to the forums

[mushroom]

I don't normally post on these boards normally just read what everyone else has to say but I am always interested in talking about tools! You will have to look very hard to find a true tempered stainless steel tool whether it be a spade, fork or hoe, many are pressed steel, welded together and are just shiny tat, ceratinly no one makes a solid tempered stainless steel spade in the UK. I use an early Spear and Jackson spade from the late 1950s made fro heavy stainless stel that is brilliant but I have not found any modern stainless steel spade that has the same weight, strength or that is solid forged. If one was made you would see it in the price therefore carbon steel would be my preference for most tools. I sharpen all my tools with a tool file and then a scythe stone.

The tools I paid the most for - the spade, garden fork, trowel, small fork (this is the stuff I thought would be used the most, at the outset), are all spear & jackson, stainless, and appear to all have oak handles (or some kind of hardwood). The spade & garden fork were 25 to 30 quid apiece. The trowel and small fork were a tenner apiece or thereabouts.

I hope they're not 'tat'  :!:  :!:

[gobs]

see previous posting by someone on car boot sales. :roll:  :roll:

I dont quite get your point Gobs,if you want to play the pevious post game then see my post on this subject many months ago  Or are you saying that once you have posted a comment then nobody else can post a similar comment.

Or are you saying that we should submit our postings to you in case you may have made a similar comment before.

Can anybody else understand what Gobs is saying or is it just me.    

I thought 'see previous post, previous topic, this link and that' was often used, I did not think it was offensive and I am sorry if you felt that way. You did not say where you get them from.

Of course, you say what you like and your experienced advise is very welcome and it is always laid out in such an entertaining fashion that makes a good read, whatever it is about.

And I would probably be the rubbishiest editor of posts, of course.
 


Where else can you get them from, please?

[mkhenry]

see previous posting by someone on car boot sales. :roll:  :roll:

I dont quite get your point Gobs,if you want to play the pevious post game then see my post on this subject many months ago  Or are you saying that once you have posted a comment then nobody else can post a similar comment.

Or are you saying that we should submit our postings to you in case you may have made a similar comment before.

Can anybody else understand what Gobs is saying or is it just me.    

I thought 'see previous post, previous topic, this link and that' was often used, I did not think it was offensive and I am sorry if you felt that way. You did not say where you get them from.

Of course, you say what you like and your experienced advise is very welcome and it is always laid out in such an entertaining fashion that makes a good read, whatever it is about.

And I would probably be the rubbishiest editor of posts, of course.
 


Where else can you get them from, please?

No offence taken Gobs I was just a little confused,but thats me.