[John]

If you're interested in making a real long term difference to the way animals are treated - please take a look at Compassion in World Farming

They say it better than I ever could. Warning - some of the images are disturbing.

[Midwife]

I joined a few weeks ago. If my monthly donation helps just one animal I will be chuffed!

[John]

Well done -

I know there are other campaigns on the go but these people are experienced and have got results.

[spizanne]

I am sorry, you are all gonna slate me for this but if we were prepared to pay more for our meat at the butchers then our farmers could afford to keep their animals in better conditions, you all know how much it costs to feed a chook for 6 months but you only want to pay £4 for a chicken to roast? figure the math

[John]

Your point is well made and factual. But if all the farmers are required by law to adhere to higher standards then they compete on equal terms so the 'kind' farmer can compete on price.

And I bet the 'cheap chook' farmers would love to have to run lower stocking densities etc. They are forced by economics at the moment to go against their real wishes.

Funny how Tesco can run a campaign for dearer booze but not dearer chicken on the shelf.

[peapod]

I agree that £4 a chicken is maths that most mums (in my case a single one for a very long time) cant argue with, I was giving my lads sunday roast, a sit down meal and chat with mum they couldnt get out of once a week (!)
But (although I still shop at asda) Ive found buying free range and british grown hasnt made that much difference to my pocket.  Its usually a question of LOOKING at the produce for sale rather then getting that blooming shopping over with
Im fully for compassion for animals - hence the reason I started to look at my shopping, but its also about kids health, british farming, no chemicals, long term objective in the state of our economics and ecology

Believe me, anyone who is just browsing this forum, it can be done on economical terms, I started trying one or two products when I got made redundant and started a countryside management course that I DONT earn any money from( :cry: )

I couldnt serve my kids up battery hens or eggs now

[John]

As I'm sure a lot of vegetarians and vegans on here would confirm, you don't actually need to eat any meat, eggs or milk to enjoy a healthy diet.
In fact, the vegetarian is bound to be less at risk of bowel cancer for starters.

We like and eat stews quite often. By adding pulses like broad beans and kidney beans the protein level is increased, the fibre content is increased and the meat is more of a flavouring than anything. Does the substitution of beans for meat reduce the quality? Not at all. Much more satisfying.

[peapod]

I agree with that john, veggie is definately healthy if you follow it properly

but there is no way that any of my family would turn vegetarian (though my 18yo doesnt eat red meat), so my 'healthy' option is buy free range

[pookey]

I have been vege for 18 years, thorough too no animal rennets, geletin, cochneal etc and I am in great health, I very rarely get ill (not even headaches, colds etc), I never need naps etc - even in pregnancy.  I am 5 foot 2 and 8 stone yet both my sons were 8 1/2 lb each.  My husband ate nothing but meat (only veg he'll eat is potatoes and corn on cob), he was constantly tired and ill with colds and flu.  He's switched to mostly quorn and soya and started having home made veg soup and hes really noticed an improvement to his health.  He still eats bacon and chicken a couple of times a week but reducing the meat has been great for him.

I only give my sons meat 2-3 times a week and fish 4-5 times.  I want to keep my own chickens for meat but know I could never let them be killed - I'm too much of a sucker for animals, so free range is the next best thing but with the scandals of the supermarkets selling stuff that isnt free range, it is always best to use your local farms if you have them - I was reading about the scandals in your book john - its a great read, I'm not too far in but I'm already hooked!

[John]

Hi pookey - it got there OK then

Good to hear you're enjoying it - I tried to pop a little philosophy in about how growing your your own is in some ways a blow against being just another consumer but we only had so many pages and so much to say.

[pookey]

Hi pookey - it got there OK then

Good to hear you're enjoying it - I tried to pop a little philosophy in about how growing your your own is in some ways a blow against being just another consumer but we only had so many pages and so much to say.

Theres so much quality info, once youve got a glossy colour gardening book, crammed with pictures, they all regurgitate the same info.  Ive got loads of veg books and some of the photos appear in 3 different books (exact same photos!)  It's great to be able to get stuck into the nitty gritty without having to turn the page every 50 words - once youve seen a hoe and a spade you know what they look like!  It's perfect for anyone with a little garden knowledge who dont need walking throught the very basics of gardening.  As I said, I'm still reading but really enjoying.

[John]

I know what you mean about large format, colour photo books with a bit of text dotted in. Just not my style. As for regurgitated - every couple of years they trot out the 3 sisters on Gardener's World - you know, sweetcorn, squash and climbing beans. IT DON'T WORK!!! Grrrrr.

I wrote the book I would want if I was new to veg growing but serious about wanting to grow.

[Kate and her Ducks]

I think most people on this site are already taking steps towards more ethical ways of eating. The pictures on that site are certainly upsetting and even without my girls providing me with more eggs than I can eat, I couldn't ever imagine eating battery or barn eggs again. I am not vegetarian but my meat eating habits were really changed by a conversation with a vet I know who will not eat anything other than organic meat. I think that hearing that from someone who works in the industry really struck me. I agree that economics are always going to be a main driving factor in the farming industry but it is distance from that industry that allows those of us seperate from how our food is produced to tolerate it and therefore support it with our custom. Look at the difference that the recent televisation of table and egg chicken conditions made to the way shoppers vote with their money!

[John]

I think most people on this site are already taking steps towards more ethical ways of eating. The pictures on that site are certainly upsetting and even without my girls providing me with more eggs than I can eat, I couldn't ever imagine eating battery or barn eggs again. I am not vegetarian but my meat eating habits were really changed by a conversation with a vet I know who will not eat anything other than organic meat. I think that hearing that from someone who works in the industry really struck me. I agree that economics are always going to be a main driving factor in the farming industry but it is distance from that industry that allows those of us seperate from how our food is produced to tolerate it and therefore support it with our custom. Look at the difference that the recent televisation of table and egg chicken conditions made to the way shoppers vote with their money!

Don't underestimate the ability many people have to think two opposed things at one. If we had to kill our own animals to eat meat, how many people would be able?

I'm not sure I could.

But eat a juicy chicken nugget? Easy peasy.

Unfortunately the TV effect is falling off rapidly now, although I think it has had some permanent effect

[compostqueen]

I hate the idea that live animals are transported for slaughter in places like Eastern Europe. Can't they just slaughter the animals here and then export the meat  :? What's so difficult about that  :?

I'm not a vegetarian but during the summer when the lotty is in full flow I can manage without meat as there is such a good range of meal options to be made without including any meat.  My husband and son are real carnivores but even they relish fresh sweetcorn and newly pulled spuds and fresh veggie pakoras