[chriscross1966]

How do you make sure that there's no dead worms etc in your soil?

[Zippy]

Just wondering.....why is chicken manure and bunny manure ok......but not the other animal manures

Just a few reasons why I allow chicken and bunny manure but not other animal manures:

I know what my bunny has eaten so I know I am not introducing broad leaved herbicides onto my plot. Recent problems with herbicides still active in manures brought onto allotments have been enough to convince me that commercial animal manures are no longer a viable source of nutrients for the small gardener.

My personal choice is to live a life which avoids exploiting other animals and using by-products such as manures is the same as buying into the meat market. My bunny doesn’t choose to be captive I grant you but he has a brilliant life, is well fed and has plenty of human contact.   Appropriate kitchen waste is fed to bunny (he hates onions) and then onto the compost heap as a high nitrogen source and activator.  Chicken manure comes from ex-batts for the same humane reasons.

I would rather build my compost heap up slowly on site and drag it the short distance to the beds than drive out to stables and farms to fill buckets of sloppy manure and my car with dung flies and then strain myself getting it onto the plot. Most of this black gold is water which is why it is so heavy – what’s the point when a packet of green manure seeds fits in your pocket?

There are other reasons which I prefer to keep to myself at present. Perhaps you could privately email me for those and I may divulge (I may not).  I hope these reasons are enough to keep the thread lively and informative.

… as for worrying about dead worms in my soil – very silly comment. Obviously dead worms have fulfilled their purpose and will turn back into the soil as do we all.

[richyrich7]

I can understand your reasoning Zippy,
The threat of persistent herbicides alone is cause enough for concern IMHO.
& we wonder why the human race has less fertility and myriad of health problems, personally I believe the pesticides/herbicides in our veg and water contribute to many of these.

[chimaera]

When it comes to fertilisers, I think that that much of the organic rating has the wrong end of the stick, and "chemical" fertilisers are often the way to go.
P. The phosphate usually comes from mineral phosphate (often fossil fish bones). You can buy this as mineral powder (which is classed as organic) or is usually made into superphosphate. The only difference is in the latter come of the CO2 is driven off so it is more concentrated. Without animal input (living or fossil), it is very difficult to get enough P into a soil to keep it fertile long term.
K. The potash is from a mineral source, and is mined from modern, or far more commonly fossil, salt lakes. Some plants may concentrate it (Comfrey) but cannot make what is not already in the soil, but it is only being recycled and will gradually diminish as crops are removed.
N. Can be fixed by beans etc, but that in fertilisers comes from the air, where a chemical process can convert it into ammonia and hence other forms.


If you do not like any of these processes, you can buy mineral phosphate and potash separately.

Charlie

[compostqueen]

Superphos is expensive and anything you can make yourself that you know is green and vegetarian as per the original question has to be a good thing.  I'm all for using what I have without having to go out and buy something else. 

It's all a matter of choice of course 

[Zippy]

you can buy mineral phosphate and potash separately

Each to their own and not wanting to degrade this thread to an argument, but I don't see the point in buying little boxes of things when my compost is a good balance of these three fertilizers and spend my money on seeds.

The other point earlier about organic farms having to lay away precious land for green manure crops. It is true that larger organic farms have to do this as no vegetable growing model is ever a closed circle; there have to be nutrients coming in to at least balance the produce gowing out.

However on the allotment plot we can have a small bed of comfrey which will continue to force roots down and bring nutrients up from below to use on the growing beds. Every late autumn I put an offer out on Freecycle to offer to collect peoples' deciduous leaves for leaf mould - a valuable service to elderly and infirm in the process. Also kitchen waste, rabbit and chicken manures etc are all nutrients outside the circle that can be brought in without resorting to commercial animal manures or artificially manufactured fertilisers and this would be sufficient for a relatively small allotment. My own is 20 x 20 feet of growing space and I manage to grow things closer together because I don't ever walk on my plots; increasing the output without depreciating the land.

[chimaera]

Exactly; that is why I do not agree with "organic fertilisers". You either use animal product (manure or processed wast like bonemeal) or chemical fertiliser. I suppose you could use other people's kitchen waste, but I dread to think how many tons you would need to get the same P and K as a bag of growmore.

Charlie

[Salmo]

I think the truth is that most soils in the UK are relatively fertile and would not notice any difference if no nutrients were added for a number of years.

The important thing with soil is to keep adding organic material to improve the structure and water retaining properties.

[mumofstig]

I think the truth is that most soils in the UK are relatively fertile and would not notice any difference if no nutrients were added for a number of years.

You wouldn't think that if you had my garden soil It's useless it gobbles up anything you can throw at it, but is slowly improving without chemicals.
I even have worms now