Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

freebirdy · « **on:** November 17, 2011, 09:17 »

Ok here goes.... we (group of allotment holders) have sought permission to keep chickens on one of the abandoned plots. We are allowed to keep birds, I know the ins and outs of this long standing battle with local councils through reading about it on here!
It will be a joint effort to keep the birds, plot rent paid through collected monies, feed, housing etc etc all paid for through joint effort. We have no plans to sell any eggs, they will be shared out between the allotment holders who are paying into the "chook fund." So therefore it will not be a comercial venture or a business. The welfare of the birds and care will all be shared out between us all.
Now the part I'm not so clear on...... we've been told we can only keep 4 birds!!! Are the local council allowed to dictate how many birds we can keep? We were planning on 12!! Considering we will be egg sharing between 20 plot holders we will be waiting a long time to get our 1/2 dozen eggs in rotation with only 4 girls!

I know all the rules regarding commercial/businness keeping, DEFRA registering etc etc but with only 12 birds that we wanted it should be clear that in no way would this be a commercial venture when there are 20 of us sharing the care of the birds and eggs!
We know on another other much longer established allotment site near here (the other side of the canal bridge so less than 500yrds away and also under the same local parish council!!!!) that people are keeping up to 20 birds on a plot that belong to only 1 owner! Our allotment site was only opened last year so still a work in progress.
Also the local parish council have altered the rent for the plot we will be keeping the birds on. We all pay £20 per year for our plots but we have been told if we wish to go ahead with out community chicken keeping our plot rent will be £50!!!

Can the council limit the amount of birds we wish to keep and are they within their rights to up the rent?
I'm not actually going to be paying into the chook fund or having any of the eggs as I have my own 8 hens in my garden. I will be helping out and dishing out advice to the plot holders until they get the hang of things. So if I can keep 8 hens in my own back garden (same local council) why are they restricting 20 allotment holders to only 4 hens! CRAZY!

ANHBUC · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2011, 11:31 »

Think the £50 rent is meant as a deterrant as is the restriction of number of birds. You could maybe ask for the restrictions and rent statement to be sent from their Legal Department. That way if they won't you know that they can not legally do it.

Aunt Sally · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2011, 11:47 »

I think you need to have a meeting with the local council officers concerned. Try to have the meeting on the allotment plot.

You are breaking new ground here by having a shared plot and a shared responsibility and ownership for the birds.

If you can show the council that you are approaching it in a very responsible way and that you as an experienced chicken keeper will be able to ensure the safety and welfare of the birds and control hygiene and vermin problems, they may change the restrictions they have put on you. If the plot is near to dwellings the council may have restricted numbers because of concern about noise nuisance.

Four birds would be enought (in allotment terms) for a single family plot. Sharing between 20 plots even 12 birds in full lay would only give about 3-4 eggs to each plot holder per week.

joyfull · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2011, 11:58 »

and what will you do with the birds when they stop laying? cull, move them on or keep? if the latter then will you be able to replace them given that numbers will be limited?
These are all things that will need to be sorted out along with things like vets fees, worming, etc.

Yorkie · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2011, 17:47 »

We have an increased rent for plots with livestock on them because a) we have to leave the water on all year, with increased risk of frost damage, and b) there are greater inspections involved to ensure welfare of the birds. But it's not as much as your proposed increase by any means.

That increase needs to be justified by the council and, if necessary, ask them to justify it in the light of the case Harwood v Banstead DC 1981.

They are within their rights to limit numbers based on statutory nuisance, but to do so before the chickens have been acquired seems a little premature and to be anticipating a nuisance where one in fact will not occur.

Again, ask them to justify it on legal grounds and see what they say.

I agree with all of Aunt Sally's comments.

freebirdy · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2011, 09:14 »

Thank you all! The council are aware that I am already a chicken keeper, I live within 500yds of our allotments and have 9 birds in a garden in a residential area so it does seem strange to limit us to 4 birds on an allotment site that is situated the other side of the canal and down a steep hill and near no houses!! From our sites there is just open countryside!! Therefore no problem with noise or nuisance. As i said I live in the same parish as the allotments to it does seem very strange that the council are aware that I am a back yard keeper AND have a rooster but are limiting the chooks on an open site elsewhere and within spitting distance from my house!

I can look across the canal and see our allotments down the bottom of the hill!!

The cost of vets fees/worming etc with all be taken from the "chook kitty" I will administer the wormer and oversee the general welfare of the birds until the other keepers feel more compitent.
There was no objection from the council officers about us renting the plot on a joint basis, I think it was a case of they would rather the plot was cleared and put to use than lay derelict! The plot in question is right in the middle of our site and no one seemed to wantto take it on! The water is already turned off for winter but we also all have our own water butts so plenty of water for the birds!! The food is to be kept in metal lidded containers in the communal potting shed that we all have a key for.
I will talk to the other allotmentiers over the weekend and suggest we arrange a meeting with out council officers and ask all the relevant questions and also why on our sister site the other side of the canal bridge, other keepers have 20 or more birds!!! We are literally divided from that site by an access road, we all gain access to the two sites by crossing over the bridge, our site gate is to the left theirs to the right! We talk to each other from each site!!!! And we know from a quick chat yesterday "over the hedge" that they are NOT paying more rent for their plots with chooks on! Curiouser and curiouser!!!

And it also came to light their general rent for their plots is only £15 per year whereas we're paying £25!!!!

We're NOT happy bunnies especially as they have full size plots and we only have half size!!!! Some suspect going-ons' here we thinks!!!

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Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

freebirdy

Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

ANHBUC

Re: Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

Aunt Sally

Re: Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

joyfull

Re: Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

Yorkie

Re: Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

freebirdy

Re: Another allotment/chicken fight!!!

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