DEFRA Reply

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Markw

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DEFRA Reply
« on: May 11, 2012, 22:51 »
I was thinking what started this subject of in the first place and remembered it was feeding chickens potato peelings. I have also contacted DEFRA, regarding this but have still have not had a reply yet,

Their site clearly tells us what law covers this on their web page  

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/byproducts/wastefood/cater-qa.htm

Under Q3, (The Animal By-Products Regulation (EC) No. 1774/2002). sometimes I think that DEFRA doesn't know what the other hand is doing!  Why because this law has been repealed and up- dated 21st  October 2009 and came into false on the 4th of March 2011.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:300:0001:0033:EN:PDF

It is interesting reading you can't use your egg shells. but all I look at is Article 2 (scope) section  (this regulation shall not apply to the following by products) item G (11)

Then go to Article 3 Definitions  (27 )waste means Link below. I don't want to be sent to the naughty step, but I think other members should be aware of the changes that are not covered in the old regulation.  I think if interested members can take the time to read the regulations they will have a better understanding.

I would not be boiling up dead animals to feed my chickens only vegetables. If I do get a reply from them I will forward it onto Joy. I have pointed these issues out to DEFRA.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:312:0003:0030:en:PDF

And there you will find the definition of waste.



Edited and added Link
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 23:23 by Markw »
When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.

Dresden James

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Tony H

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2012, 06:53 »
yes i agree it is very confusing but the rules are still the same :    
Catering waste means all waste food including used cooking oils originating in restaurants, catering facilities and kitchens, including central kitchens and household kitchens'. This definition also includes catering waste from vegetarian restaurants and kitchens.

Catering waste is controlled by the Regulation if it:

  comes into the Community from a means of transport operating
 internationally;
is destined for animal consumption (the Regulations make it an offence to feed livestock, or allow them access to, catering waste)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 06:56 by Tony H »
Chicken crazy

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ehs284

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2012, 07:56 »
Article 5 is explicit enough. If you peel a potato with the intention of using the peel as food for your birds then the peel is not waste. Your neighbours' peelings are (for your purposes)waste and cannot be used.
The complicated catch alls are intended to stop food waste being collected from domestic and commercial premises as was a common practice by pig breeders some years ago. The 2001 Foot and Mouth disease outbreak seems to have had that type of source. It does not prevent the use of part of a product (e.g. a potato) being used for human consumption whilst the other part is intentionally used for animal consumption.

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Markw

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2012, 08:29 »
Thank you ehs

This is what I have been trying to say all along, if it is cooked specially for your birds you are not breaking any law. otherwise you would not be allowed to give your birds hot milk and cereal in the cold weather.
If people can be bothered to read the regulations it clearly states this. so you can cook your own vegetable peelings . as long as it is for feed. you are not allowed to feed them any left overs either meat of vegetables as they could have come into contact with meat.

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jhub

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2012, 10:18 »
When I contacted Defra about using cooked potato peelings from my kitchen that had not been in contact with any animal by product they told me this was illegal.

Mark, regarding your second link -2009 EU regulation
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:300:0001:0033:EN:PDF

"It is interesting reading you can't use your egg shells. but all I look at is Article 2 (scope) section  (this regulation shall not apply to the following by products) item G (11)"

I read this and it states 'the regulation shall not apply to the following animal by products....g) catering waste EXCEPT if it is destined for feeding purposes.

The third link (2008 EU directive) ncludes the definition of what constitutes waste products and states that 'certain products shall be excluded from the scope of this directive to the extent that they are covered by other legislation' and animal by products  is one of these exclusions. Chapter 1, article 2, 2b

I wonder how many of us peel potatoes where the sole objective is feeding our chooks the cooked peel?

It will be really useful if Defra replies to Mark's questions however they left me in no doubt about the current regulations (regardless of my personal feelings about the subject)



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Ice

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2012, 11:25 »
How we feed our back yard birds in the privacy of our own homes is our own business.  Yes, technically it is against the rules, but those rules were never intended for us in the first place.

This had been debated ad nauseum on the forum and the best solution is to quietly feed your hens whatever you feel fit.  The chances of prosecution must be less that getting hit by a meteorite twice in the same day.

It's a similar situation to the home made pesticide dabate.  The site cannot condone their use for legal reasons, but a lot of people make them anyway. ;)
Cheese makes everything better.

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joyfull

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2012, 11:40 »
Mark  please do not give your birds milk - they have an intolerance to lactose (a small amount such a a bio yoghurt may not show up as detrimental but any more certainly will). If you wish to give birds a pro biotic then use a product called avipro plus which is for poultry.
When people mention a mash or porridge on here it can be layers pellets mixed with hot water or porridge oats (not from your kitchen but from you feed store) mixed with hot water.
Staffies are softer than you think.

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Markw

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2012, 12:46 »
Page 7 article 3 Definitions /1`Waste  means any substance or object which the holder discards or intends or is required to discard..

You can find potato skins on any menu, and pay top price for them, they are not waste. I can't wait for their reply. I have a very good idea as to why they  are saying you cant cook pealing.

Vegetables are not meat, and I have asked them to point out where in the regulation it  is worded that says this,

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mumofstig

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2012, 12:52 »
I think this thread is best locked for now.

When/if you get a reply from them please pm Joyfull who will unlock the thread for you to tell us their answer.
Lesley x
I'm not good, I'm not bad - I'm just me, and sometimes I have to apologise for that ;)

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ehs284

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RE confirmation from DEFRA
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 14:22 »

I apologise for arguing with what should have been the final word, but this is a matter which must cause consternation to many ordinary people with a few birds and one which arises quite often in my professional role as lecturer in environmental health and food safety and security. It would be interesting to see the original email to Jhub. The links quoted are quite clear and do not contradict earlier comments on what is legal. The key words are waste and discard.
Where there is no intention at any time to discard materials, then they cannot and are not to be classed as 'waste'.  This reasoning was relied on heavily by the High Court in the case of Mayer Parry Recycling Limited v The Environment Agency.  The same point was made in the case of Environment Agency v Thorn International and Environment Agency v Inglenorth.
In the case of food-based waste the question is whether the material is to be discarded by the producer. Is it of no use within your own household? If the restaurant is disposing of the material it is waste. If your neighbour is disposing of the material it is waste. You, however, are not disposing of the material. You are deliberately using it for an intended purpose within your own premises having legitimately purchased it with the aim of so using.
The everyday use of language is confusing as waste food and food waste are terms used indiscriminately, however, it is worth considering that we throw away 7.2 million tonnes of food and drink from our homes every year, costing us 12bn - most of this could have been eaten.


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mumofstig

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Re: DEFRA Reply
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 14:32 »
I've merged your new post with the thread as you were determined to argue add something else!

This really must be the final post until Defra have replied.................



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