Fruit trees, dwarf root stock

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Ruth Cross

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« on: October 16, 2007, 09:57 »
Having recently acquired a rather large allotment  :D I've just ordered some 'dwarf' fruit trees. I know it is always always best to plant them out, but I would really prefer if possible to have them in containers. This is because I would like to take them with me if we ever move (which wouldn't be too far)

I've ordered;
Apple James Grieves grafted onto M9.
Pear Conference grafted onto Quince C.
Plum Victoria grafted to Pixie (I know this is not strictly dwarf)

I recently read in an old issue of Gardeners World that some dwarf rootstock is suitable for large containers (particularly M9). Although it would produce a reduced yield, its only to feed two of us so I'm not too bothered as long as the trees are healthy and I'll keep them well pruned!

My question is what size of containers would anyone recommend? and does anyone have any general advice about growing fruit trees in containers?

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gobs

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 10:03 »
A lot of watering and feeding. Get as big pots/containers as you can especially for the plum, like tubs Cr, trees are planted in, originally smaller ones will also do. :)
"Words... I know exactly what words I'm wanting to say, but somehow or other they is always getting squiff-squiddled around." R Dahl

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WG.

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 10:06 »
No experience of fruit in containers but I think you might have problems moving with any container which was (a)big enough to allow fruiting and (b) prevent blowing over.  Is there not a fair chance that the container would cost more than a replacement tree if you do move?

I've grown Jerusalem Artichoke in half whisky barrels (one per) and they are really only just big enough at 120 litres.

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Ruth Cross

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 10:39 »
I have plenty of 'big strong' (but not so willing :roll:) men in the family who would help out moving them. My husband is a carpenter so we were planning to make big square containers, line the inside and attach the planters to fencing stakes rammed into the ground. The planters wouldn't cost much and I don't want to buy new stock when I move as it would be likely that I would have to wait a year or two before they fruit .

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WG.

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 11:37 »
Yes, I did think about the loss of productive time involved in a move.

Okay, others may come up with different ideas but my suggestion would be to incorporate stout carrying handles in the design of your wooden container.  A litre of soil can weigh around 2kg, so a 200 litre container of damp soil with a tree in it could weigh over 400kg (very few people can lift 100kg).

To give you some idea of size, 60cm x 60cm x 75cm deep, gives a 270 litre container.  I am not recommending that size incidentally - I am only looking at practicalities of moving it.

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splodger

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 12:03 »
most trees - including fruit - can survive a short period bare rooted. with this in mind - i would be inclined to make as large a container as you can - re space etc.

fill it with good compost - once planted keep it well fed and watered.

when it comes to move it - you could carefully tip the container - and pull the tree out gently. remove excess soil, wrap roots in damp sacking and transport to new home - replanting asap.

as they are dwarfs - they are not going to be that heavy - and if done at the right time of year - fruiting should not be knocked back. don't prune and move in the same year.

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Ruth Cross

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Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 12:26 »
Thanks thats great, moving them without the containers would be much easier.

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Tinbasher

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Re: Fruit trees, dwarf root stock
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 23:36 »
Quote from: "Ruth Cross"
Having recently acquired a rather large allotment  :D I've just ordered some 'dwarf' fruit trees. I know it is always always best to plant them out, but I would really prefer if possible to have them in containers. This is because I would like to take them with me if we ever move (which wouldn't be too far)

I've ordered;
Apple James Grieves grafted onto M9.
Pear Conference grafted onto Quince C.
Plum Victoria grafted to Pixie (I know this is not strictly dwarf)

I recently read in an old issue of Gardeners World that some dwarf rootstock is suitable for large containers (particularly M9). Although it would produce a reduced yield, its only to feed two of us so I'm not too bothered as long as the trees are healthy and I'll keep them well pruned!

My question is what size of containers would anyone recommend? and does anyone have any general advice about growing fruit trees in containers?


I've grown apples and berries in containers on a fairly windswept (when windy) rooftop patio and in Lancs at that.  It is a massive sun-trap when it's hot, but obviously you can forget that this summer just gone.  Still, production has been much the same and there was far less labour involved in watering.  The varities you mention though aren't familiar to me, but this is my experience.

The containers I've used for some years, are those plastic 'muck-tubs' as they're called up here - the ones with 2 rope handles.  They usually come in a dark green colour and I paid just a fiver or so each for them.  Off the top of my head they're about 2 foot+ diameter and about 2 foot deep.  The actual stated capacity is just 70 litres - more or less 2 bushels.  This is the heavier-duty large size and they last for years.  There is a smaller version, maybe 50 litres or so, often supplied it seems in brighter primary colours.  Avoid these as apart from size, the plastic seems of lower quality and degrades to a brittle and fragile material in a year or so.  Avoid the brighter colours anyway, especially red, if available in the large version as colour pigmentation also has an effect on longevity of plastics. Summat to do with sunlight and pigment.

Red Oxide Metal Primer is also a good material for painting onto (lightly scuffed with sandpaper) any plastic container.  When it dries, which it does quickly, it is the colour of terracotta - more or less exactly the shade of typical plastic pots.

So, the large tubs as above.  I've grown Blackcurrants, Redcurrants and Gooseberries easily for about 6 years now in the same tubs.  Typical gooseberry yield is about 10lb out of 2 tubs.  Similar volume for blackcurrants.  Solitary redcurrant bush is only 2 yrs old so not sure yet.  I expect less, it's a less productive plant I would say.  I had 2 jostaberries but they are so vigourous that they easily outgrew those tubs in 2 or 3 years so I gave them away to a local lottie owner.

The apples are all M27 rootstock - truly dwarf varieties and meant to be trained (and so far only relatively sucessfully) into dwarf pyramids.  They were planted as 2 yr olds into much smaller containers - just a normal 12 or 14 inch plastic pot, from there into the smaller version of the muck-tub after 2 years and at different intervals when those smaller tubs began to disintegrate.  They're all now in the full sized version along with the berries and I'm expecting years of production yet.  

I have lifted them rarely when necessary in the past but it takes two.  Apart from the weight, which isn't vast, you can't physically bend over the tub (with prickly bush sticking in you) and grab the widely spaced rope handles.  But they are quite easily dragged by one handle if the surface is flattish - obviously.

They need holes drilling in the bottom when new - they are an excellent carrying/storage container left undrilled or a mini water butt.  I've started wine in them (rope handles removed and a circular sheet of glass on the top - let it bubble for its initial ferment).  

A couple of inches of neutral stone/gravel went in and then a quality compost - John Innes No 3, equally with peat and a good handful of bonemeal, and the bare-rooted tree or bush went into this material.  Every year say around March, I carefully scrape off 2 or 3 inches of topsoil from each and add some fresh No 3 back on top and maybe some well-composted manure.  I feed them at this time too.

Moving them or re-potting should only be done in winter when leafless and dormant as I'm sure you know.  I've always done it fairly easily.  You're bound to get soil loss as you lift and ease the stem or stems out, but you should always have a soil-ball around the main roots which holds together quite well and can be transfered carefully into the prepared new home.  Any distance and I would carefully put the whole soil ball into a sack or potting-compost bag with extra planting mixture and move from there.

The best variety of apple I've had by a distance in M27 and by this method is Red Charles Ross.  Huge fruits (need branch supports), fruits keep very well, also seem least atttacked by nasties.  Only about half a dozen apples per year though (although I've had 3 snapped branches).


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