[Kleftiwallah]

 How hard can it be to bake a loaf of bread ?  There are websites about this simple process coming out of your ears, yet my loaves still sink like a duff souffle.   They taste nice but are a bit 'dense'.   

I follow the instructions to the letter but.  .  .  . The one thing I noticed was that the loaves were a bit wobbly but were double their original size, and I pressed in a bit with my finger.      Anyone out there got any clues ?       Cheers,  Tony.

[Aunt Sally]

Could be a number of things wrong.

What ingredients do you use and how do you make them ?

[Kleftiwallah]

Just yer bog standard ingredients and method, not trying anything out of the ordinary.  Hoping someone has had this problem before and can put their finger on the snag.     Cheers,   Tony.

[New shoot]

Are you leaving your bread to prove for a long time Tony?  If you are using fast action yeast it can run out of steam sometimes. The initial rise needs to double the volume of the dough, but once you have shaped it into loaves, they need to go in the oven fairly quickly.  Sometimes its ready after just 20 mins as the final rising should happen in the oven and is known as oven spring.  

To get a really good rise in the oven before the crust hardens, heat the oven to 250 degrees C and put a roasting pan of water in the bottom of it to make steam.  Once the oven is hot, carefully slash the tops of the loaves to allow for expansion - 2 diagonal slashes work well on round loaves and 1 central slash on a loaf tin loaf.  Spray your bread with water. I've got a cheap plant sprayer I keep just for this job.  Give the bread 15 mins at high heat, then turn the oven down to the heat your recipe gives to finish cooking.  

The combination of heat and steam, plus the slashes in the dough should give you light bread with a good chewy crust  

[sunshineband]

Never done that hight heat 15 mins New Shoot --- must give it a a go 

[cheshirecheese]

This definitely sounds like letting it rise for too long to me.  Some recipes also use too much fast-action yeast because the idea is that cooks these days haven't got the time (or perhaps the patience!) to wait - so the more yeast, the less time it takes to rise ... but the smaller the window you have in which to bake it so your timings have to be spot on. Dan Lepard advocates a method which requires very little kneading, but takes quite a while from start to finish because he leaves the dough to rest in between.  He says:

'More yeast usually means less flavour, and a speedier staling of the loaf, but you have to balance this with the time you have.  For a simple white loaf, 400g strong white flour, 300ml warm water, 1 tsp fast action yeast and 1 tsp salt produces a loaf in about 3-4 hours - start to fully baked - with a good flavour and a soft crumb.  Halving the yeast and taking 75% - 100% longer would make the crumb more moist and the flavour richer, but only good if you have the time.  And as soon as you add fats and sugar to the dough you need more yeast to do the work.'

For more info on his technique, see his book 'The Handmade Loaf', or his website www.danlepard.com.  Best of luck!

[cheshirecheese]

p.s. I meant to say, have you ever made soda bread?  It's so easy and very quick.  I often make it at the weekend for breakfast because it only takes about half an hour from start to finish!  You can either make it with plain white flour, or malted/granary makes a lovely alternative (although that doesn't rise quite as much as the white).

500g Flour
10g Salt
4 Tsp Baking Powder
300ml Buttermilk (or ordinary milk will do)

Pre-heat the oven to its highest temperature. 
Put the dry ingredients into a bowl and mix together.  Add the buttermilk and bring the mixture together with your hands - no need to knead! 
Divide the dough in half and shape into two rounds.  Flatten slightly, then cut a deep cross into each round.  Dust both loaves with a little flour (I like to use rye flour, but plain flour is fine). 
Put into the hot oven on a pre-heated baking sheet or directly onto a baking stone for ten minutes at Gas Mark 9/230 degrees, and then lower the heat to Gas Mark 6/200 degrees and cook for a further 15 minutes or until the loaves sound hollow when tapped on the bottom. 
Leave the bread to cool slightly, and then break into the four quarters rather than cutting.  Delicious with real butter!

[Kleftiwallah]

Some very good thought provoking replies there.   I'll re-read them and try ONCE more ! ! !       Cheers and thanks,     Tony.

[mumofstig]

Another thing are you making the dough a little too wet, this also allows a good rise that is more likely to settle back on itself, and make sure you put it gently on the oven shelf, if you 'bung it in the oven' that can make it settle back.

[noshed]

I made some dough, it rose, I divided it into rolls. Then I was called to the pub. When I baked the rolls they tasted OK but were no good.
Obviously I went to the pub too early

[Trillium]

It does take practice to know exactly how much flour to add despite the 'given quantities'. If it says 5 cups, then its an approximate. Humidity in the room affects how much flour to add, so does how much water you added, even brands of flour differ slightly in density and absorption.

As said, when you add flour and knead, you add only enough so that the dough is still slightly sticky but can be moved and kneaded. And once you reach the 2 minute kneading point, stop adding any more flour. BTW, kneading is not punching the dough around, which a lot of people seem to do.

And breads do require a portion of hard (bread) flour rather than all purpose. Bread flours contain more gluten for the stretching/rising process. Pastry flours absolutely will not work for breads.

[Aidy]

easy option is to buy yourself a breadmaker, you dont have to bake all the bread as many have a dough setting, this mixes, proves then you chuck it your bread tin or make a fancy shape and bung it in the oven, or choose one of the many options and just enjoy the fresh bread without the hard work.

[compostqueen]

I didn't like my breadmaker as the recipe is tweaked to suit the machine rather than the machine being tweaked to make the bread properly.  It was a real faff as the stupid measuring jug bore no resemblance to any of the quantities in the recipe book  I got rid of it and have never looked back. It was a cheapo brand machine though 

I am really loving spelt bread making and have had some fantastic results.  I also have made loads of loaves using the recipe Michel Roux gave out on telly, which is on the web. A white loaf made with fresh yeast, butter and honey. Delish   

I would say that you need to make sure your ingredients are fresh!!!

[mumofstig]

I love my bread machine  ...............You don't need to follow the recipe book that came with it - if it's only making the dough 

I have my own recipes, but the machine does all the hard work for me

[sunshineband]

I agree with Mumofstig --- I wouldn't be without my breadmaker, that does all the hard work and i have all the fun

fun of deciding what to put in the bread

fun of smelling it rising

fun of shaping the bread and cooking it in the oven, when I want to (if not I accept the rather funny shape it comes out of the machine  )