[shokkyy]

I made a new veggie bed at the start of this year, about 18' X 18'. Half of it had been used for growing spuds the year before, so I gave that side a good digging, but the other side had always been lawn, so for that I took off the turf and dug it as best I could. It was very difficult to dig because it was extremely compacted and the underlying soil is clay. I then put down 3 tonnes of imported topsoil. I haven't had good results, which I guess is partly due to weather conditions, partly due to invasions by moles and mice, but I also don't think the soil is good enough. One thing I noticed is that the topsoil really compacted down and didn't seem to be draining very well. This autumn I want to do everything I can to improve the soil so I'll get better results next year.

I've got plenty of leaf mould bagged up in various stages of decomposition. Does it all have to be completely rotted down or is it ok to put some on that's partially rotted?

I'm also going to put down as much compost as I can get from my bins. I was thinking of trying a good scattering of rock dust in with this, which I read should be put down in the autumn so the worms can take it down over winter. Next spring I'll also add a generous helping of BFB and chicken manure. Is it overkill to use both? And is there any benefit from putting these down in autumn as well?

Can I get away with just putting layers of leaf mould and compost on top, without digging it all in? Given that the underlying soil was so difficult to dig effectively, and the fact that the bed's surrounded by fencing with a high board around the base, I'm thinking of a kind of no-dig system. I don't like the idea of layers of straw and unrotted materials, because I'd like the option of sowing seeds in the bed, but if I can put down enough layers of leaf mould and compost I could build it up that way instead. I can get access to horse manure but it won't be rotted and I'm a little nervous of using it given all I've read about aminopyralid. Any suggestions for anything else I can do that might help?

[mumofstig]

have you done a soil test? Is it acidic............
I added calcified seaweed to my garden when I dug it last year, and growth was much stronger this year

[Lardman]

At a guess you have created a hard clay pan under the top soil you have added so you only have the depth of the added soil to grow in.

You have two choices build up the added soil depth to 8-12 inches to give the plant roots plenty of room to grow or dig the bed to a decent depth mixing the clay.

You need plenty of organic matter, the more the better. Id also be looking at some of the longer rooted green manures to break up the pan and make the digging easier. There are plenty of nutrients in your clay its just a matter of accessing them.

I think you've missed the deadline for lupins but this is the sort of thing. http://www.greenmanure.co.uk/lupins_blue.htm

If you don't sow green manure over winter, do a bean test on the horse manure then get as much in as possible - 3-4 inches deep at least, doesn't matter if its rotted or not all pooh is good pooh.

[shokkyy]

At a guess you have created a hard clay pan under the top soil you have added so you only have the depth of the added soil to grow in.

I can understand how that could happen on the side I was struggling to dig, but why would it also happen on the side that was dug out, and which had been used for growing spuds for three years previously? I thought spuds were supposed to be good at breaking up clay soils.

I did wonder about green manures. The trouble is, I've still got courgettes, squash, beans and brassicas in the bed at the moment, and by the time they come out I think it'll be too late for green manures.

Re the manure/bean test - what worries me about that test is that I could believe that one dropping from a horse wouldn't be affected but another dropping from the same horse might be, if that horse had grazed on grass or eaten hay affected by aminopyralid between the two. I'm not convinced that doing a test on one bit of manure would necessarily guarantee that all of them were ok to use.

MOS - No, I haven't done a soil test and I ought to. I'm not really sure whether the problem is the actual fertility of the soil or just its composition, but I don't like the look of the way it's compacted down. Yes, I do walk on bits when i can't reach something, but it's like it even under the bean canes where I couldn't possibly walk. It's like the rain has compacted it down. I've never used calicified seaweed - what does that add?

[mumofstig]

have a look
here
and
here

[Lardman]

I can understand how that could happen on the side I was struggling to dig, but why would it also happen on the side that was dug out, and which had been used for growing spuds for three years previously? I thought spuds were supposed to be good at breaking up clay soils.

That is, in my opinion an urban myth - (I know that's going to upset some members). You break up the soil cultivating it for the spud, the spud itself doesn't do anything useful.

Once you have removed the crop, the soil will settle and compact back down, if theres nothing but clay there it all sticks back together just as it was before.

Even if you have things still in there I would be tempted just to sow around them, then again in spring with a fast growing crop, The clay just need something to disperse it a little and stop it all form a big lump.

I do take your point about the consistency of pooh and it is a gamble, you could always look at compost instead but its going to be a costly job.

[Goosegirl]

I kow you have put in a lot of work and been disappointed - join the club! If you can manage some more digging or forking before winter, try getting a load of sharp sand/grit and a big load of mushroom compost and dig it in. I know exactly how it is as I made 6 raised beds out of what was once a field with very little topsoil, a hard pan then heavily-compacted silt.  Sharp sand/grit is instantaneous and will allow the compost and whatever else you add to work as there will be air in there unlike before.

[shokkyy]

MOS - thanks for those links, that looks ideal. It's kind of bewildering with the big variety of different organic fertilisers/conditioners (to me, anyway). I'm never quite sure whether to pick one and stick with it (which I've tended to do with BFB) or throw the lot on in the hope it does some good. The problem I've found with BFB is that you have to be really careful not to touch the leaves with it. I made that mistake this year and managed to badly scald leaves on squashes, courgettes and beans. And with sprawling plants like squash it's kind of hard not to get some on a leaf when they're big.

Lardman - I don't make the best compost in the world, but I've got 4 big wooden bins and half a dozen daleks full to the brim. I need to turn them all and find out how much usable compost I've got in there, but I'm crossing my fingers it ought to be a good amount. I'll dig it all as best I can before putting that and leaf mould down, with the calcified seaweed.  Does anyone know if it's ok to use leaf mould if it's only partially rotted down, given that it'll be down there over winter?

[shokkyy]

MOS - when I do a soil test, should I be testing the surface few inches of soil, or the deeper soil? Given that I've put down imported topsoil on top, I'd have thought I could get two different readings.

[mumofstig]

I took my testing from soil about4 ind down I think, cos that's where most of the roots are..but I just follwed the instructions on the pack