[FeralSuz]

Hello everyone. :}

I am new to this forum, and partially new to chicken keeping, at least in this country. (Have had some limited experience of it in Africa as a teenager with my Dad.) so, I am re-learning the skills as an adult.

I recently built a lovely coop and run and have taken on four beautiful pullets. From past experience, I knew that having a cockerel in a back garden (even a largish one) does not sit well with neighbours, and particularly my current ones, who are already very twitchy about local 'student' noise, as we have a large University nearby, and some of the local properties have been converted into student digs. Expecting them to now accept a noisy cockerel into the bargain as well is likely to have me shot at dawn, along with my bird. lol! I have erred on the side of caution here, and have been advised by my husband to rather 'rent a cockerel' if I want to hatch a clutch of eggs, rather than taking on the full-time responsibility of a bird I would probably soon have to re-home again.

I have searched through this forum for information on who would be willing to allow me to either borrow or 'rent' a cockerel for the space of time that covering would take, but so far have only found mentions of this practise being used, rather than who I can contact to do so.

So, here I am, in Bournemouth, Dorset, willing to drive as far as the Dorset borders on the weekend to facilitate this plan. I am also willing to discuss some kind of exchange for this...perhaps some hatching eggs if it all goes smoothly?

I have a New Hampshire Red, a Sussex, a Bluebell and a Black Rock, just 17 weeks now, and yet to lay me an egg between them. :} So this process may take a further while. I thought I'd start making enquiries now so as to be ready for the optimal breeding season. 

If you can help with this, please feel free to contact me and we can have a chat about it all.   

[Sassy]

As your chooks are pullets you would be advised to wait a while to breed from them at least until next Spring. If you do persuade someone to rent you a cockerel you would, ideally,  need to make sure he was ok by isolating him for 2 to 3 weeks first. Then your chooks would need to settle down with him as well. When you get a broody hen or are you going to use an incubator? you will then have to contend with at leat 50% cockerels in the hatch. What are you going to do with them?

You would be advised to wait until one of your pullets has matured and goes broody and buy hatching eggs. If someone were to rent you a cockerel, ideally, they would also need to isolate him on his return.

You may, of course, have thought about this and have your plans, in which case good luck

[FeralSuz]

Thanks a lot for the info...any advice is appreciated as the object of being here is to learn. :}

Yes, I am probably jumping the gun a bit, but I remembered that these things take a bit of time to organise. Simply buying hatching eggs for my broody hens seems a far easier alternative than my idea of involving a cockerel in all of this. lol! Now why did I not think of that? 

You may be able to see in the corner of the photo to the left, I have a large shed that is in need of a use. I was planning to perhaps convert that into 'cockerel quarters' or a nice safe and warm place for the chicks or broody lodgings. As I have just started with my basic set-up, it is due to be changed, expanded etc etc as the need arises. Always room for improvement. :} The reason we wanted to hatch some eggs is because my ten year old son is learning with me at the same time and he is very keen to experience chicks. 

Thanks so much for the help.

 

[joyfull]

I agree with sassy getting hatching eggs would be a better option for you. You have no guarantees that your hens will also go broody so perhaps an incubator may be best (you can get little ones that hold just 6 eggs) and you will need a broody box with a heat lamp or an electric hen to raise the chicks in - one of these is ideal to have anyway even if using a broody hen as not all accept the chicks once they have hatched so you need to be prepared.
 so if you hatch 6 eggs and 5 turn out to be cockerels (and some breeds are so difficult to sex So you have to wait until they either crow or lay eggs) what will you do with the boys and the neighbours who will hear them crowing? I am not meaning to put you off as hatching your own chicks is magical but am just trying to show you all the potential pitfalls.

[FeralSuz]

No, good point, Joyfull. It is important to know of possible pitfalls before they bite me on the ass. :}

Reading the 'free to good home' section, I see that re-homing cockerels appears to be a big issue...so many needing homes, and not enough homes to go to. :{ I am glad that I was sensible enough to consider not getting my own one from the outset, and yes, I am now seeing the holes in my original plan. Thank goodness you have been kind enough to stop me from making a mistake. It seems to me that chicks are going to turn out to be more trouble than I can handle and I guess we are going to have to give this some more thought.

Just a question: as you said below, about being able to sex a young chick, how possible is it to be able to only buy female chicks? Can more experienced breeders generally tell if their chicks are hens or cockerels (those breeds that are easier to sex from a young age) or are you simply expected to buy a couple and hope for the best sex outcome?

I'd prefer to explain to my son that having chicks may not be possible rather than taking a chance on having birds that we will have trouble re-homing, or getting into a 'cockerel noise war' with my prickly neighbours. Our hens are very quiet, and since I own my property, I at least put my foot down on keeping some hens, since I have to put up with a barking dog two doors down and various pet cats pooing in my veggie garden. lol!

Again, chicks would be a consideration only in the future, as I would need to prepare for them in advance, but no harm in seeking the information now. For the moment, I am happy to just continue enjoying my current birds but you know how kids are. *wink*   

[kegs]

Did you want to breed chickens for eggs?  Have you thought of incubating and raising some 'table birds' then you could keep the cockerals for the table and the hens for both eggs and the table?  Just a thought!

[joyfull]

there are certain breeds that can be colour or feather sexed. The Shaver black is one (grannie annie on here rears these) and the cream legbar are two that spring to mind. The cream legbar will lay an egg that can range from blue through to drab olive green (this is owing to them haveing the araucana gene in them - but pure araucanas are difficult to sex). So you could look out for day olds in these breeds and raise them in a brooder with a heat lamp or under an electric hen in a brooder (Brinsea do one and they are less than £40 on ebay so not too much to buy). This way your son could watch them grow from day 1 and be able to carefully handle them - which a lot of broodies don't like, and you would know they are females.

[GrannieAnnie]

Another good thing about getting hatching eggs is that you can then decide which breeds you want to raise and buy those eggs, but if you were to 'borrow' a cockerel, you have 4 different breeds of chickens, some of which are hybrids, so you won't know what you will end up with.

However, if like Joyfull says you buy autosexing eggs, then you will know from day one which are girls and which are boys.

[FeralSuz]

@ kegs: Happy to go either way. I have a good sized garden for free-ranging, but want to stick to about 6 birds or so, once I have extended my current set-up. The plan was to get four laying hens, for eating/selling eggs, and from there, to see if I could carefully breed a couple more, and sell the extra chicks. However, I was aware from the start that cockerel noise was likely to be the biggest issue and was looking for a way around that.

I have been reading extensively about the husbandry to build on my knowledge, and am concerned about the welfare of the birds, most importantly, so do not want to make mistakes that I could have avoided by taking the time to speak to more experienced chicken keepers. In light of that, I read somewhere that cockerels are tough meat and not desirable as table birds...or have I gotten the wrong end of the stick here? It would explain why there are lots of cockerels needing re-homing, as one would assume that if they were reasonable table birds, would they not then be destined for that purpose if unable to find a home?

However, as Joyfull pointed out, what does one do with a clutch of little cockerels, as someone in my position, until they are ready for the table? Do they tend to be noisy from an early age or do they start their crowing activity when they are closer to adulthood? Not something I have been able to find much information on, as most sources are only concerned with hens.
  

[GrannieAnnie]

They can start to crow from about 11 weeks.  The cockerels are tough if too old, and cockerels from hybrids don't have enough meat on them to be worth the bother of killing, plucking, gutting then cooking.

for the table, we rear proper meat birds from day old, but if you wanted dual purpose birds there are quite a few, Rhode Island Reds, Light Sussex, Welsummers (which are supposed to be sexable at day old) Faverolles, Cornish/Indian Game, to name a few.

If this is something you really want to do, don't give up, just learn as much as you can, and get round the problems.   

[FeralSuz]

@ GrannieAnnie: Could you please elaborate on 'autosexing' eggs for me? Does this mean you are able to buy hatching eggs from suppliers that you know are definitely females? Is it possible to determine the sex from the egg stage or have I understood that wrong?

[GrannieAnnie]

The Shaver Blacks that Joyfull mentioned are an autosexing hybrid.  All the chicks are black, but the boys have a white mark, sometimes looks like a diamond on their heads,so I know as soon as they are hatched and fluffed up which is which.

They are basically a cross between a Rhode Island Red and a Barred Plymouth Rock.  Then if you cross a Rhode Island Red cockerel with a Light Sussex hen, the girls are brown and the boys are yellow when hatched.

Here is a little video I found from an American company.  He shows you the black autosexing and on another video the red autosexing.  

With Welsummers, Joyfull and I thought that the colouring of the chicks was different, but it isn't as we found when we thought Joy's chicks were 2 girls and she ended up with 2 boys! lol, but the girl chicks are a clearer colour if you know what I mean, the boys chicks colouring and patterning are fuzzier.

LkBvm_IEOTc

[FeralSuz]

@ GrannieAnnie: I have been waiting 15 years to have chickens again, and now that I own a good sized property in a town, I have the space to do it at last. :} My husband and I have been talking about it for the last four years we have been here, so we have not entered into it lightly, but we are trying to be cautious. :} Never an easy thing for me. lol! I wanted to think about breeding a few of my own birds, and realise that that comes with its own set of problems, the odd one or two I am learning about today.

I am so grateful for all the advice, and the fact that none of you are calling me a moron by now. :}

In reply to your last post, I take it then that I misunderstood 'autosexing eggs'. :} I thought it was too good to be true. lol! Thanks for the vid. It explains a lot.

[joyfull]

if you are able to harden your heart then you could raise your own by buying auto sexing eggs and just dispatch the boys as soon as you know the sexes - like Grannie says she has to do with her shavers when they are dry and fluffed up (nobody likes to do this but it will help stop the neighbours complaining - I am sitting here now listening to 3 of mine crowing their hearts out so this proves they don't just crow in the morning, mine started at 4 this morning) 

[FeralSuz]

@ Joyfull: Hardening my heart...eep! I can either pretend I am a seasoned veteran at this and that dispatching little male chicks would be a cake walk or I can be a real soppy Suz and have a meltdown at the thought of culling little cutie pies, but I guess it depends on how much I want a relatively noise-free solution to my dilemma.  I would need to give it some consideration, although the one thing I know I can be sure of is that if my son ever found out I was brave enough to do that, he'd never speak to me again. He is the  sensitive type, and to some extent, I must admit so am I, when asked to think about it.

I was actually wondering when someone would bring the subject up. When is culling purely for sex requirements considered to be acceptable and when is it not? I suppose table birds are reared for eating, and therefore for slaughter too, but I wonder if I'd not be accused of trying to bend nature to my will in order to have a less noisy town chicken run. :} It was hard enough having to explain to him that once the hens stop laying after a few years that they'd have to meet their ultimate fate. The look on his face was touching but I decided it was best for him to know this from the start. I have the feeling I am already in the doghouse and we have hardly started.