Baroness aka Hench Bulley.

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featherhead

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Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« on: June 29, 2011, 00:20 »
One of my bantam wyandottes (Peaches) seemed a little lathargic so I took her to the vet. The vet told me (in a very judgemental voice!!) that she is nearly starved to death as she had barely any muscle/soft tissues to her! Knowing that I fill my chickens pellets every morning and give them table scraps, mealworms and mixed corn in the afternoon I was very confused. The vet prescribed me some antibiotics but only as a precaution - not really knowing why she would not be eating.
The next day I watched my four chickens closely and found that my bantam orpington (Baroness) ate all the food and refused to let any of the other hens eat any. If one came close she would chase and peck all three until they were back inside or cowering in the dust bath. When she had eaten the entire bowl I filled it up again and the same happened. What a horrible greedy chicken! I have now put two extra food dishes in their run and when I come home I seperate her whilst the others eat.. but - Baroness does not socialise with the others, she does not sleep with them or perch with them, she will not go to bed when the others all go together and still feeding them is a struggle as she steals all treats and still tries to chase them away from feeders.
Is there anything I could do or should I give up this chicken? I don't really have room to seperate her and I don't really want to. If I gave her to another home, perhaps with more space and maybe bigger chickens would the same problem still occur?
Feather x
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Lindeggs

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 01:19 »
Oh poor little Peaches! 

Do you have enough space to seperate Baroness temporarily - just long enough to disrupt the pecking order so she will be at a disadvantage when she returns to the flock?

Also is there much differnce in size between Baroness and all the others?  I get the impression that they are all bantams, but if Baroness is bigger, is there some way you could set up a 'safe haven' with food, water etc where the others can get to it but Baroness can't?

Otherwise all I can think of is re-homing her.  It might be better for everyone long-term. :(

Good luck with finding a solution.

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Helenaj

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 08:28 »
I agree with Lindeggs - she needs to be temporarily seperated, or put in a "sin bin" where she can see everyone out enjoying themselves and eating away and she can't (I bought a dog cage for this purpose and it soon breaks the bullying as they hate it in there). Keep removing her if she continues with the behaviour, but if she doesn't stop the only alternative is to rehome as you can't let a hen starve to death for the sake of a bully.

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Lewjam

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 10:03 »
If you get two feeders it will help.

It cant defend both at once, just put food in both, make sure they are a fair distance apart then every one can eat!

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Kenilworth

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2011, 14:25 »
If you get two feeders it will help.

It cant defend both at once, just put food in both, make sure they are a fair distance apart then every one can eat!



I think i read somewhere on here for a similiar situation to put a feeder per bird then one extra!!!!
Does sound a lot

I would try the naughty chicken step first, though it may take a while to break her!

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Kenilworth

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 14:26 »
Oh and dont forget extra water as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Lewjam

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 15:05 »
I would keep them separated until the smaller ones get back into condition, but i would certainly add another feeder.  Its likely the bully will start again once introduced, im not sure if natural feeding behaviours can be "broken"

Also food should be available all day, and a chicken can only eat so much so should realy get bored of defending after having its fill - are you convinced you have never left them wanting as this may encourage dominating tendencies around the feeder?

I think just adding another so there are two would make a big difference, ive not seen a thread saying one per bird, this does seem excessive though!

Other people may disagree - i have read a fair few of Hillfooters posts about the subject - might be worth seeking his advice as he is very experienced.

Lew

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hillfooter

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 21:14 »
Thanks Lewjam for bringing this post to my notice.  I think though that the the other posters have probably covered the likely options reasonably well.  However I would say that if this bird is otherwise Ok and you like her it's a pity to give her away without trying to break this behaviour.   Most behavioural problems have a husbandry cause, boredom, too close confinement poor feeding, nutrition or some such so let's start by ensuring these issues are in order.

You say when you put their food bowls in the run, so straight away I'm wondering is this the problem.  Chx are browser feeders and so you should be feeding them ad libitum which means they should have food available ALL the time hung up in gravity feeders not ration fed in bowls.  So get 2  2.5 kg gravity feeds like this. 

http://www.chicken-house.co.uk/acatalog/3kg_Orange_and_White_plastic_Chick_Feeder.html#a1517

and two similar style drinkers.

Three bantams should eat no more than 200grams of feed a day tops so put around 1Kg of layers pellets in each and hang them at back height under cover protected from rain well separated so the agressive bully can't defend both at the same time.  Do the same with the drinkers but stood on the ground.

Cut out treat feeds in the afternoon and stop meal worms for the time being, just give one handful of corn each scattered about so one can't guard all in the EVENING only.

If these measures don't work fit the bully with a beak bumper bit so she can't feather peck and it will slow her eating down too.  Lock her in the house while the other eat if necessary and she'l soon improve.  Chx eat only enough for their needs so they shouldn't over eat.

I think what you are doing is encouraging their natural survival behaviour which any animal in a flock or herd situation will develop which is that if food is rationed they will attempt to monopolise it.  Our pigs do this too and if we treat feed the hens the dominant ones will attempt to drive the other away so they get all the goodies.  Stop ration feeding and stop treat feading for the time being and it'll sort itself out I'm confident.  I doubt it's because one bird is so stand offish that it won't mix. 

I've actually had someone bring me a hen to look after over a holiday like this which was very aggressive to other birds and refused to eat anything but grapes and treat feeds and poultry mash.  Two weeks later when she returned it was socialising normally and eating layers pellets like the rest.  The owner had developed these problems by allowing the bird to dictate to her.  If you understand their natural behaviour you can learn to get it to work in your favour instead of reinforcing their bad habits.

Best wishes
HF
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featherhead

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 20:09 »
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions everybody :) much apprechiated x

I'm glad to say after a week of having two extra feeders in the run she's calmed down quite a lot. However she is still reluctant to socialise with the others, and still won't even sleep with them!

Hillfooter - thanks for all the info. It's awesome that you know so much about their behaviour. I'm a beginner with chickens and probably am a little ignorant to their behaviour and what it means atm. Just to clarify, I have 4 bantams in a run that was sold as 'comfortable for 6' but let them wander the garden in the morning and in the afternoon for up to two hours each time so I think they have plenty of space. I can't have a hanging feeder within their run and before when I had a feeder on the floor they scraped too many chippings into it so now I have poultry dishes bolted to the sides. I never rationed their food, it has always been accesible all day and anytime it looked low it was topped up again, scattering the remains on the floor.
Having an extra two poultry dishes has almost completely stopped the bullying and I stopped giving them treats when I put in the extra dishes - which you're right! has really helped, they all seem to be eating much more pellets now there aren't any treats.

Any tips on intergrating Baroness (now less-so a bulley and more-so a loner) with the others?

Thanks again everybody, Feather x

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hillfooter

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2011, 01:51 »
You need to establish yourself as the top of the pecking order.  Do yoiuhand feed them their corn or handle them at all?  If not it might be a good idea to try.  Most hens will regard their keeper as the head bird if not the cock and will squat in the submissive posture when approached.  To encourage this push down her rear end. Treating her as part of the flock might help her integrate better. Also handle the others too.

I assume they all lay together?

Sometimes there maybe a bird who isn't as sociable as the rest but as long as they aren't actually being aggressive and bullying that probably doesn't matter so much and over time it will probably improve if she's treated the same as the others.

HF

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Lindeggs

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2011, 05:11 »
My Elsie (Barred Rock) is the bottom of the pecking order and she is a very independent young lady.  She really doesn't seem bothered about wandering off on her own, but the others will cry out if they can't see their flock-mates.

Often when I go out the back door I count 1-2-3-4-5 chickens easily, then have to search around for number 6.  It's always Elsie and she's always fine just off by herself doing independent chickeny things.

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hillfooter

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Re: Baroness aka Hench Bulley.
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2011, 12:26 »
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions everybody :) much apprechiated x

I'm glad to say after a week of having two extra feeders in the run she's calmed down quite a lot. However she is still reluctant to socialise with the others, and still won't even sleep with them!

Hillfooter - thanks for all the info. It's awesome that you know so much about their behaviour. I'm a beginner with chickens and probably am a little ignorant to their behaviour and what it means atm. Just to clarify, I have 4 bantams in a run that was sold as 'comfortable for 6' but let them wander the garden in the morning and in the afternoon for up to two hours each time so I think they have plenty of space. I can't have a hanging feeder within their run and before when I had a feeder on the floor they scraped too many chippings into it so now I have poultry dishes bolted to the sides. I never rationed their food, it has always been accesible all day and anytime it looked low it was topped up again, scattering the remains on the floor.
Having an extra two poultry dishes has almost completely stopped the bullying and I stopped giving them treats when I put in the extra dishes - which you're right! has really helped, they all seem to be eating much more pellets now there aren't any treats.

Any tips on intergrating Baroness (now less-so a bulley and more-so a loner) with the others?

Thanks again everybody, Feather x

Good that you seem to be making progress with the food guarding problem now.

This is an interesting issue from understanding what's happening here but my reading of it is that Baroness is not bonded into the flock and maybe that's because when you got them the others had been part of the same group of chickens and she was from another flock and she just hasn't integrated.  In order to ensure the others get food separating Baroness at feed time which short term may have been necessary as your other birds were suffering will actually be enforcing the isolation so now having two feeders will help as they will be free to share the food and compete as a normal flock.  I think the behaviour you were seeing was similar to the sort of behaviour that occurs when you try and introduce a new bird to an established flock.  The old birds will try to drive the new ones away and keep them from feeding or drinking.  The food source is one of the most guarded possessions of a flock and is defended zealously.

This aggressive behaviour should not be confused with "pecking order" pecking which is all part of the establishing social order within a flock which is bonded.  So when your birds are bonded as a flock where will still be contention for the natural order of the hens.  When a flock has a cock he will naturally assume the head of the flock.  When there is no cock you need to establish that role or a dominant hen will occupy it.  Hens have been known to "change sex" in such situations.  One thing a cock will do is feed the hens and take respnsibility for finding food.

Incidentally if you have a cock you should always hand feed him first and he will distribute it by picking it up and dropping it in front of the hens.  If you feed the hens directly ignoring him he may well develop aggression towards you as he will see you as a rival.

Best wishes
HF

 

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