[kegs]

Hello All,
I'm new to chicken keeping and need your advice again please.

We have a Hipswell Sussex that we got 6 wks ago that has been laying soft shelled eggs at night for the last 2 weeks.  I bought some Limestone flour on Monday with some Cod Liver oil, coated some bread with both and fed it to her.  She ate it Mon, Tue and yesterday but this morning there was another soft shell in the coop and today she wouldn't take the bread, is off her food and is quiet, listless and just standing around looking sorry for herself.  I've checked her over and can't see any nasties.  Their coop was new, is only 4 wks old and has been treated as per Hillfooter's suggestions so I don't suspect red mite. They are in the garden all day (she's one of four and is bottom of the pecking order), she has layers pellets and grit with shell available at all times and I'm now out of ideas.   I would really appreciate any comments.

[joyfull]

as they are new and young - cut out all treats (and that includes the oil and the bread) and make sure they have a good quality of layers pellets and a pot of crushed oyster shell.  Make sure she is getting enough to eat so have several feeders around - if she is the bottom of the pecking order the others could be stopping her get to the food. You may find for a while that you have to have more feeders than you have chickens - this way she will always be able to get some food.

[kegs]

Thanks Joyfull,

I'll give that a go and hope she improves.  Is it common for chickens to lay soft eggs - there always seem so many posts about it on this site?

Also, how often should I use Frontline on the chickens please - and should I use it if there is no evidence of worms?

Sorry to be such a novice! 

[joyfull]

frontline is for lice, for worms you need flubenvet and your chickens will need worming every 3 or 4 months 
Hens new to laying often lay soft shelled or shell less eggs until their bodies get into the swing of things. So long as she is getting her full share of layers pellets and has access to crushed oyster shell she should soon sort herself out. If it doesn't (after cutting out all treats) then she may have a problem with calcium absorbtion.

[kegs]

Thanks Joyfull

Obviously my error was just to prove what a novice I am 

If she does has a problem with calcium absorbtion, what am I meant to do then?  I was hoping the flour would sort her out.

[joyfull]

wait and see first then we can look at ways of helping her absorbtion 

[redjane11]

would love to know more about the calcium absorption as I too have a chicken that lays soft shell eggs. she is nearly a year old and a black rock. fed on layers pellets with plenty of crushed oyster shell. Also free ranges for a couple of hours aday. laid fine for a couple of months but for the past month or so its been soft shells.

[joyfull]

Aunt Sally posted somewhere that to aid calcium absorbtion they need Phosphorus and Vit D3.
The only one of mine that has regularly laid soft shelled eggs was an ex-batt and to help her I used to give a pinch of limestone flour on a few sweetcorn kernals for a week or so at a time - this would help her for short periods but her problem was down to being an egg laying machine in her past.

[kegs]

Hi
This is an update and a request for further help please.  I followed Joyfulls suggestions and cut out the treats as well as increasing the number of feeders.  My Hipswell Sussex certainly started eating more layers pellets (when the others would let her) but it made no difference to the soft shells.  I then tried giving her some Limestone Flour each day with some Cod Liver Oil for 10 days which started to make a difference - in fact two days ago she managed her first egg albeit with a delicate shell.  I think I've read on here that too much flour can cause problems but it was obviously starting to help so I really don't know what I'm meant to do now to help her calcium problem.
Any suggestions please.

[hensjs]

I shall be interested to hear your progress as I have a four year old just starting to produce soft shell eggs and up to now she has been laying 300+ eggs a year for us. She looks well and strong and eating well (pellets and corn and grit with oyster shell) and no sign of mite infestation nor of molting. I am perplexed. I'm not keen to overly change her diet as I haven't had to for the four years I've had her. Now I am not even getting soft eggs - just nothing. One comment I received was perhaps her laying days are coming to an end but being a hybrid I would have expected possibly another year from her so I am hoping she's just taking a well-earned rest....

[Lindeggs]

From what I have read, soft shells in young hens need a different approach than soft shells in older hens.

hensjs, four years is a very reasonable time for a hybrid hen.  She may lay a few more eggs, or she may have finished laying.  If she continues laying soft-shelled eggs, then some limestone flour won't do her any harm in small amounts.  It can be a problem for younger hens but in a 4-yr-old it won't have the opportunity to build up to excessive amounts.

kegs, with a young hen you do run the risk of giving her too much limestone.  It can build up in her system and cause problems later in her life.  You could try keeping up with the cod liver oil (for the Vitamin D) but reducing the limestone.

How old is your girl? 

Does she spend some time in the sunshine each day?  Does she have access to any green feed (grass, weeds, etc)?  Both these things can help her to metabolise vitamin D.

[kegs]

kegs, with a young hen you do run the risk of giving her too much limestone.  It can build up in her system and cause problems later in her life.  You could try keeping up with the cod liver oil (for the Vitamin D) but reducing the limestone.

How old is your girl? 

Does she spend some time in the sunshine each day?  Does she have access to any green feed (grass, weeds, etc)?  Both these things can help her to metabolise vitamin D.

We bought her as POL on 20th April.  She's let out in the garden every morning until late at night, so lots of sun and greens.  She won't touch the Cod liver oil now though and turns up her nose as soon as she smells it - can't blame her really!  All ideas welcome.

[kegs]

I meant to add that I've also bought some Calcivet but don't know whether I should use it or not.  I don't want to cause her any problems later on but really don't know how else to increase her calcium levels.  She seems so much happier now that she's laying harder shelled eggs.  

Just a thought - I don't know whether it's important or not but when I bought her they said she'd lay brown eggs but so far her shells have been pure white. 

[Tattyanne456]

I dont want to alarm you, but one of my hens was regularly laying soft shelled eggs, and went on to develop egg yolk peritonitus. Unfortunately I had to have her put to sleep.  As I said I dont want to alarm you but I believe for-warned is for-armred. Good luck with her.

[Lindeggs]

Yes soft-shelled eggs are more than an inconvenience for us.  They are also a real risk factor for the hen if it's a chronic condition. 

kegs, I'm not familiar with Calcivet.  I've googled it and it and found this composition:
Calcium (Ca++) as Calcium borogluconate 33.0 g/L
Vitamin D3 25000i.u/L
Magnesium (Mg++) as Magnesium sulphate 2.0 g/L

It's good that it contains D3 (to help calcium absorption) and magnesium (because you need to keep the calcium and magnesium in balance as they both bind to cells in the same way.  Too much of one can cause a deficiency of the other).

Basically I think you need to balance up all the risk factors, do your best to reduce the risks, then make as much of an informed decision as possible.

The risk of not doing anything about the soft shells is the increased chance of the egg not being expelled properly, leading to a serious infection.  Many people on here also report that their hens seem to be unhappy/uncomfortable when laying a soft shelled egg so there's also her quality of life to consider.

The risk of supplementing calcium (or over-supplementing any mineral) is that it can
a) Build up in the chicken's organs leading to long-term health problems.
b) Create an imbalance of other minerals.  Magnesium has been mentioned but phospherus is also an issue.  Calcium, magnesium and phosphorus all need each other to work well, but an excess of one will cause problems with the others.

If this was my chicken, this is what I would do:
Lifestyle issues (applies to the whole flock)

• Ensure she has full access to a commercially-formulated, balanced food ration.
• Ensure she has access to cool, fresh water at all times.
• Allow her to have as much shell grit as she likes.
• Maintain her access to sunshine, greens she picks herself, and outdoor excercise.

Supplements (Just for her - not her flock-mates)

• Direct-dose her with the recommended rate of Calcivet. 
• When she starts laying eggs with 'proper' shells, gradually reduce the Calcivet.  Eventually you may be able to wean her off it completely, but maybe not.

In addition
Personally I would give her Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV).  Research has shown that if you can acidify her urine, you may be able to stop excessive minerals being deposited on her internal organs, which may reduce any long-term side effects of excessive calcium supplementation.

The ACV won't harm your other hens, so you could add it to their drinking water at a dose of 1 - 2 tablespoons per litre.  I suppose you could direct-dose it just to the one chicken, but that could be quite tricky, and it would be better consumed in small amounts several times a day rather than all at once.

To be fair, any type of vinegar would have the same acidifying effect (and be cheaper) so the more I think about it the more I would lean towards dosing the water source for the whole flock, at least during the time you're experimenting with the Calcivet. 

Note: Vinegar in the water will NOT thin the shells of the other hens (it's a whole different mechanism).

Disclaimer:  I'm not a vet!  I'm just recommending what I would do in this situation.  Contrary opinions are very welcome!