[Growster...]

As I've thought a little more about the implications of a previous rambling on planting extra veg, like toms and parsnips, it seems right to explain a bit more about where I'm coming from.

This late spring/summer is currently very dry in the south, and there have been several scary stories of water shortages elsewhere, which will mean higher prices for lots of veg we don't grow, like main crop potatoes for instance.

Although the additional money needed for these spuds will not break the bank, I half worked it out that just a dozen more parsnips planted on the headlands of the row and in the gaps, could well balance the books for that particular veg, and a few extra toms in the freezer, makes it cheaper for sauces etc in the winter.

I'm definitely going to grow maincrop peas next to the (failing) earlies, as they can go straight in the freezer too.

Sounds a bit smug all this, but we're up against it the same as everyone else, and if we're all squeezing that little bit more out of the plot, for very little extra effort, then we should be making a difference.

Perhaps it's the 'wartime spirit' I learned from that book I recommended recently, but anyway, I reckon it's food for thought...

[mumofstig]

I reckon it's food for thought

but more importantly will be food for your tummy 

[Growster...]

I reckon it's food for thought

but more importantly will be food for your tummy 

Absolutely Mum, and that needs to stay trim for a few more years yet, because I'm saving up for a new pair of trousers!  ;0)

Luckily, toms don't make any difference!

[mobilekat]

I must admit to trying to squeeze a few more plants in.

Where I live I am surrounded by a big organic veg producer and they have already written to their Veg Box customers to warn us that things are heading towards not looking great for this season.
They have already been having to irrigate the fields which they would not normally expect this early.  As well as having crops bolting much earlier than normal!

So to steal a phrase, every little helps, and a few more veg in now may save more pennies later!- then much mulching!

[Growster...]

You're right of course, Mobs.

It may mean just a little more care on hoeing, to keep clear of every veg, instead of bashing into a couple and saying *** it...

As it's my first year back on a plot since 1990, I'm damned if I'm not going to wreak every little bit extra from it after all this time!

Watering is a bit of a bind though, but there again, it's got to be done if the alternative is nowt!

[Goldfinger]

So does this mean spacing needs to be 're-thought'??

Example, when it says '12 inches apart' we're now saying 8 or even 6 inches apart etc.

On another plus side maybe, will weeds have to compete harder?

[Growster...]

So does this mean spacing needs to be 're-thought'??

Example, when it says '12 inches apart' we're now saying 8 or even 6 inches apart etc.

On another plus side maybe, will weeds have to compete harder?

Good point Gold.

In a 30' row, just an inch less per plant means 3 or 4 more whatevers, which is - say - a pound or two of veg you don't need to buy when they're more expensive!

I learned some time ago, that putting leeks very close together, say 4-6" apart, gave the same overall yield as the big ones set further apart, so, while you get the same, pound for pound, you may achieve more flexibility in gathering them when you want them, and at the right size, and that may make a difference of the magic 5%.

It's not a hard and fast rule, but I've covered every square inch of my plot this year, and I now wish I'd kept some rows closer together anyway! So the toms can go in the headlands maybe, or I can straighten up an edge here and there, and they can fit in there as well. The parsnips can go in a few gaps and so on.

I reckon, as you say, that weeds get a weak start if there are powerful cultivated veg elbowing them to one side, but that may just be wishful thinking...

[Goldfinger]

Suddenly, I've 'discovered' more space then!! 

There IS space for

Sweetcorn..................................parsnips................................leeks........... ...............Chard...

................   

[Growster...]

Or weeds Gold...

I know what I'd prefer to harvest...;0)

[Paul Plots]

Closer spacing will need more watering. Sometimes it can mean smaller plants too but end of rows, intercropping and lifting and re-planting with a catch-crop all help to make the best of the space available. 

[New shoot]

I have grown quite a few veg in clumps for the last few years and that brings big yields for the amount of space you use.  I sow cell trays with beetroot, spring onions, salad leaves, shallots etc and plant the whole clump out.  You can do leeks this way for baby leeks as well.

These are my beetroot last year .  Got a massive crop out of this little bit and the leeks (very closely spaced) behind them did really well as well.



I also grow climbing french beans up my sweetcorn to get an extra crop and that works well.

If your soil is good and you've added lots of compost, it does seems sustainable to overcrowd a bit.  I watered a bit last year but not that often.  Other than that I chucked pelleted chicken manure on every 6 weeks or so and just kept the weeds down.

[Goldfinger]

Could I sow some ruby chard in the 'guttering system' way, like peas?

Just a thought, with me now realising some gaps between rows maybe too big 

Beetroot in cell trays though, what about root disturbance??

And climbing Beans up sweetcorn?  :blink:  Now that IS a new one for me!

[DD.]

I think the emphasis of this topic has shifted more towards GYO, so I'll move it there.

[Swing Swang]

Would respectfully disagree about trying to increase planting density as closer spacing may also mean more disease and less opportunity to interplant/underplant/catch crop which will impact on the total yield from a piece of land. Increased use of fertilisers and seed will bump up costs too.

The big thing that I've learnt over the last 7 years is that I started off planting things way too close and can actually increase distances whilst maintaining yields.

An example based on personal observation:

If I plant sweetcorn at 12" to 18" apart I get fewer plants with multiple cobs, and the underplanted gemsquash, which is planted on the edge of the patch and which rambles through the corn, is more prone to powdery mildew. With 24" spacings there are more multiple cobs which ripen to maturity, I save on expensive F1 seed, and the gems get powdery mildew much later in the season resulting in a 20% increase in mature squash which will keep into the winter.

SS

[1st time veg grower]

Beetroot in cell trays though, what about root disturbance??

And climbing Beans up sweetcorn?  :blink:  Now that IS a new one for me!

Monty Don suggested starting beetroot in cells a few weeks back and as the whole cell is planted as a group of seedlings there isn't much root disturbance (not that I'm sure they are bothered about it in the same way carrots and parsnips might be).

As for beans up sweetcorn, my understanding is that it comes from the native american three sisters planting of squash, corn and beans - there are lots of threads about it on here and generally on the internet. I have never tried the beans up sweetcorn as my understanding was that in this country the beans grow faster than the sweetcorn, but I do plant my squash/pumpkins together.

I might try what Monty suggested last night though which was to grow beans on a tripod or wigwam and plant a courgette (though for me it will be a bush type squash) underneath it as he reckoned the beans don't block out that much light to the plant beneath.

(I come across as a right Monty Don fan but this week was the first time I heard anything that really made me lift my eyes from the computer to watch GW - I do sort of watch it, but as background noise!)