[clopops]

hi there every one.

i have been on this site a few times now but have acctually joined today as this seems the best place for alotment advice.

I have an acre of land in rural cornwall on which i have a 15x10 mtr fenced off area for my veggie patch. This year i am determined to make the most of it BUT i have a massive problem with dock leafs and stinging nettles. in late feburary i dug by hand a few square meters so they're still popping up there but only a couple. the rest of it is just really bad.

I am wondering if i use round up on the docks if it will 1) be useable this year and 2) kill off the worms and any natural goodness the soil has. i am a bit of a hippy and really don't like the idea of destroying all of the natural nutrients etc. I am thinking that the other option i have is to leave it again untill next early spring and do the whole lot by hand when all the frost has killed the foliage off.

research says that roundup is the stuff for the job, but what will it acctually do to the soil. Any advice is welcome please as i am a bit stuck on this one.

thanks for your help in advance x

clo

[Yorkie]

Welcome to the site 

I'm going to move this over to the Grow Your Own board; feel free to pop back into Welcome to introduce yourself again.

The use of chemicals is entirely up to you.  Round-up has glyphosate as its active ingredient.  You can find cheaper versions of the same stuff, or Resolva has an additional weedkiller ingredient which kills the top growth off within 24h or so, as well as killing the roots with glyphosate.

Glyphosate is inactive when it hits the soil so you can replant as soon as you want (though you should allow 10-14 days for the active ingredient to work properly first). 

I am not aware of any impact on worms or other soil organisms - although it does damage to organisms in watercourses if it runs off into them.  It has no impact on the nutrient levels in the soil.

If you are not prepared to use chemicals, then you need to start and continue digging now.  I wouldn't leave it till next Spring - you won't be able to spot where the plants are if the foliage has died off.

Personally I am happy to use glyphosate in order to clear an overgrown plot but, as I say, it's a personal choice for you to reach.

[clopops]

thanks for your help, thats really usefull. i think its the best plan as i want to get as much in this year as i can . i was thinking of strimming them down regualy if i did decide to leave it  untill next year.

i think my land is above my mums water course so i'll look into that further x

thanks x

[Yorkie]

You could try strimming but in my experience that just lets the roots get bigger and bigger, meaning they are nigh on impossible to get out once beyond a certain size.

On the watercourse front, only you know the layout and therefore the real risk, but if you follow the spraying / watering can instructions properly then I'd have thought you shouldn't be too much at risk of contaminating your mum's watercourse.

[totalnovice]

Hiya, I have had a really horrible time with docks and nettles  over my first couple of years on my plot. When i took it it had not had much done with it for years. the allotment assoc rotovated it before i could ask them not to and soc chopped up all the roots, and gave me a plot FULL of docks nettles, bingweed etc. I have rounduped and dug out roots as soon as i see them, so docks and nettles are now managable but i am still loosing with the bind weed. Oh well - 2 out of three isn't too bad!
Good luck with it, keep at it and they will get better.

[digalotty]

roundup will kill bindweed , you need to bruise the leaves and then spray and spray again in a weeks time to stop it recovering, i cleared my plot no problem also get the end and put it in a small bottle of roundup and leave it .

i use roundup as it is very hard to manage some areas without it

[Mazzie]

Half my lottie is covered in docks.  I can easily keep on top of the nettles but where the docks are growing the soil is so hard a spade bounces off it at the moment.

The best thing ive found is too snip the leaves off at the base and then spray round up right into the top of the root.  So strimming would work but you may need to have a rather large super soaker full of weed killer i would have thought - works on a small scale though.

[Salmo]

There are no fears with Roundup and water courses. It is the only weedkiller that the Environment Agency will approve for the control emerging weeds such as burr reed and reedmace in streams and ponds.

Roundup is very good at killing docks but less good at killing nettles. The important thing is to allow the weeds to put on plenty of leaf before you apply it. The best time to apply to nettles is just as they are coming into flower when they have used most of their reserves. I do not agree with the advice re bruising. The leaves will take in the chemical best if they are lush and undamaged.

If you do not want to use chemicals the best way to approach it is to allow the docks and nettles to start growth so that you can see where they are and dig them out one by one with a fork. Alternatively do you know anyone with acouple of pigs that would enjoy grubbing them out?

[mrs bouquet]

Dock leaves always grow where there are stinging nettles - reason - dock leaves take away the sting from the nettles.   So when the nettles bite you, just pick a dock leaf and rub it on.    Plus, of course they are a haven for lots of good insects, so perhaps you could just leave a few for them.  regards,  Mrs Bouquet

[Alastair-I]

There are no fears with Roundup and water courses. It is the only weedkiller that the Environment Agency will approve for the control emerging weeds such as burr reed and reedmace in streams and ponds.

Really?  got a link?

The MSDS contains the risk phrases:

• R51 Toxic to aquatic organisms; and
• R53 May cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment

I would be very cautious about it's use where the run-off (you shouldn't be applying that much anyway) could enter a water course, and avoid using it in water margins or on vegetation in water.

[Ice]

Really?  got a link?

Please reply to threads in a friendly manner.  This is a discussion, not a debate.

[Alastair-I]

I apologise if it came across in the wrong way, but that was genuine amazement that Roundup could be casually recommended for use in the vicinity of water when it's very clearly stated in the usage instructions and the MSDS that it should never be used near water.

Expanding my search, I've now found one reference on the EA website to it's use to control Ludwigia.  But the application was by careful hand-wiping application onto the leaves.

It should certainly not be sprayed on or near water, this was a very specific and controlled application that has been described by the EA.  According to the EA publication Water plants: their function and management the use of aquatic herbicides may require consent  from the Pollution Control Department of the Environment Agency.  There is also mention of the use of herbicides near water in How do I manage my Japanese knotweed problem?

[Ice]

The MSDS contains those phrases but from my understanding they are toxic at certain levels of dilution and not toxic at any level.

The link on aquatic herbicides in not relevant at all in a discussion on the use of glyphosate on land weeds.  At no point does it mention any herbicide by name either.

The Japanese Knotweed link was interesting because it says that glyphosate, in certain formulations, (you must read the label  before use), IS permitted to be used near water and is non persistent.  Also on the link is this.

"Wherever there is a risk of contaminating a
watercourse, choice of herbicides is limited to
formulations of glyphosate and 2,4-D amine that are
approved for use near water."

Copied from the Environment Agency.

[arugula]

Other weedkillers such as MCPA (agritox by one manufacturer) or Doxstar may be helpful in this situation, although I am not certain of any licencing restrictions on either and these should be checked before use is considered.

[Yorkie]

Other weedkillers such as MCPA (agritox by one manufacturer) or Doxstar may be helpful in this situation, although I am not certain of any licencing restrictions on either and these should be checked before use is considered.

Both are for professional use only.