[mooie]

Hi
I thought Id start a new topic with this question, thought I may get some more explanations this way 

The guidelines for the runs are 1 square metre per chicken, so does this mean that coops like this http://www.feelgooduk.net/58-egg-house-12-extra-large-chicken-coop-hen-home.html and this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Chicken-coop-duck-hen-house-large-run-/200583337731?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Poultry&hash=item2eb3b2d703  and most others are breaking guidelines if you keep more than 2 chickens? Surely most people are breaking the guidelines then?

Or am i missing something really obvious?

[Kate and her Ducks]

The general recommendations are a square foot per bird in the house and a square metre of run space minimum and on that basis most runs are woefully undersized for the number of birds that claim to be able to accommodate. However if they tried selling them saying you can happily fit 2 hens or jam in 4 they wouldn't seel many so they claim to fit 4 (or 6 you get the idea!).

It's been a while since I looked at the guidelines but from what I remember DEFRA's legal minimum is shamefully less than a m², this is the RSPCA recommended min (might be wrong on that).

My ducks winter run when I have to keep them off the grass is just over 1m² per duck and feel awful when I have to limit them as it seems such a tiny space and when I looked at the DEFRA limits for quail it was 145square cm per bird which is about 12.5cm by12.5! I could fit 63 quail legally into the rabbit hutch I think just about fits10!

[izzy]

we built a run out of ready made panels for two chickens and have decovered no size is big enough for them they just like to be out and about.So when we are out they stay in the run and when we are home we use that orange fencing that work men use around different patcjhes round the garden.our run is about 12ft by 6 and 6 high with wavy chicken wire arouns the top.The panels cost me £15 each

[massa]

this may sound like a daft Q but how do you work out the sq area of the run do i multiply the length of side by front? ie mine is 30ft by 30ft so is it 30sq ft or 90sq ft? 

[Vecten]

I posted a link to the DEFRA recommendations today on another thread. They are nowhere near as generous as other people keep stating. There is a big difference between DEFRA recommendations and Poultry Club guidlines. I often work somewhere between the two. If you apply a factor of 2 to the DEFRA recommendations you wont be far wrong.

[joyfull]

30 feet x 30 feet = 900 square feet divide by 9 = 100 square yards.
100 sq yds x 0.8361 = 83.61 square metres 

[Vecten]

I think it's unlikely that the RSPCA would have a different opinion to a government department, that wouldn't work.  

[joyfull]

If you look at the soil associations website they have a comparison for organic and other free range -

soil association - outside are per bird 10sq mtr
other organic certifiers - 4 sq mtr
free range - 4 sq mtr - or 2.5 if rotated frequently.

Now not everybody has the room for this size but likewise nobody want to restrict their girls freedom so 2 per bird is a good compromise.

[Vecten]

You need to use a bit of common sense really. These are all guidelines but you have to decide what is best for your birds. I don't know where the 1 sq metre comes from but it's certainly not DEFRA, their recommendations are ridiculously smaller than that.

Whatever you decide you can be assured that you will not be breaking the law as any court will use DEFRA guidelines.

[Casey76]

To be classified as "free range" laying hens must have 4 sq m of space (i.e. stocked to a density of not more than 2500 hens per hectare)

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/food/industry/sectors/eggspoultry/faq/marketing.htm

The 1 sq m comes from this section of the above guidelines:

Poultrymeat production
Stocking rate in the house is as follows:

Chickens = 13 birds but not more than 27.5 kg live weight per m²;
Ducks, guinea fowl, turkeys = 25 kg live weight per m²;
Geese = 15 kg live weight per m²;
Age at slaughter must be:

Chickens = 56 days or later
Turkeys = 70 days or later
Muscovy ducks = 70 days or later for females, 84 days or later for males
Peking ducks = 49 days or later
Female mulard ducks = 65 days or later
Geese = 112 days or later
Guinea fowl = 82 days or later

In addition, the birds have had during at least half their lifetime continuous daytime access to open-air runs, comprising an area mainly covered by vegetation, of not less than:
1m² per chicken or guinea fowl (in the case of guinea fowls, open-air runs may be replaced by a perchery having a floor space of at least that of the house and a height of at least 2m, with perches of at least 10 cm length available per bird in total (house and perchery)).
2m² per duck
4m² per turkey or goose

[Vecten]

Ooops! I actually reread that section this morning and missed that. My apologies. It doesn't change the legal situation though as no one is required to free range their hens although it is most advisable.

[mooie]

Sooooo whats the legal requirement? In general not for free range?

Oh and I got the 1 sq metre guidelines from a member on here (can't remember who) but I was struggling to find it when I googled about it.
Some places seem to say 3 square foot per chicken?

[Casey76]

No need for apologies  DEFRA is largely aimed at "whole sale" producers not back yard keepers, so the legislation is more than a bit wooly

[mooie]

Its all very confusing lol 

[Casey76]

Mooie, DEFRA only has the specifics for caged, barn and free range eggs.

Believe it or not, but barn hens can be stocked to 9 per m sq, which to me is not any better than battery cages!