soft shells/old age?????

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SUTTY1

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soft shells/old age?????
« on: October 01, 2010, 21:07 »
i got 6 exbatts 14mths ago and all been well till the last month. Started getting what i think is a soft shell most days making a mess of nest box and the other eggs. For amonth or 2 before was getting a egg with a wrinkly but hard end(thats now stopped)

They were moulting recently and i thought that was the problem.

The hens appear in good health, eat and drink well. Have been wormed this year and will be again soon. No signs of fleas or spidermite etc.

They are feed on layers plus occasional treat of mixed corn or left over greens/fruit from allotment, oyster shell and grit always avaliable.

They have a decent size, secure run( 2metre per hen) avaliable 24/7 and free-range over a much bigger area for a few hours atleast everyday.

It's been suggested to me that its old age setting in by local keepers. Can anyone give any ideas?

Only waffled on so much as i thought info might help!!

thanks

steve

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bantam novice

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 22:01 »
Hello Sutty,
it sounds as if one of your hens is reaching the end of her laying cycle.  You seem to be taking good care of them and they are otherwise in good health.  I am not terribly experienced so you may get some fuller advice from a more experienced source.  Good luck!  :)
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hillfooter

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 22:57 »
The info is essential if you want good advice so don't worry about waffle.  14 months isn't old but they are ex batts so such problems are only too common.  Here's some info I recently sent to friend which maybe useful.

"Poor egg shell quality and even soft eggs is not an uncommon problem and it can occur as a transitory condition due to some shock or trauma and it will recover naturally after a couple of weeks.  However as your hens get older poor eggshell quality often occurs as older hens don’t synthesise calcium as well as younger hens they are also likely to be challenged by many more infections which effect eggshell quality than younger birds.  Realistically you can expect a hybrid like a Warren to produce an egg a day in her first season and a small 15% - 20% drop off in the second (after her first major moult).  Thereafter the output can fall to 50% in the third year and in subsequent years production is very much dependant on an individual’s health. A hybrid over 3 years would be reckoned to be knocking on a bit and a life expectancy of 4 – 6 years might be expected though I have had pure breed hens make it to 10 years.  Pure breeds are much less productive than hybrids initially but if they maintain their health they tend to lay later into their life and have increased life expectancy.

Apart from increasing age the causes of poor egg shell quality are listed below

1   Poor nutrition – It is essential to feed layers on a good quality layers pellet as a basic staple diet and this can be supplemented with a handful of poultry corn in an evening.  Treats and household scraps must be strictly limited to no more than 5% of the feed bulk.  Especially high energy food needs to be only given infrequently and in moderation eg such as pasta or protein (no cat food) or any processed food.  All treats and scraps should be fed in an evening otherwise the birds will bulk up on these and not have the balanced diet a layers pellet is formulated for.  Clean daily fresh water in continuous supply should be given.

2   Calcium deficiency – also Vit D3 is required to facilitate calcium absorption.  Check for other signs of Vit D deficiency before using a supplement as good quality layers should provide enough Vit D and calcium. See http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/1/egg-quality-handbook/6/the-importance-of-calcium-and-vitamin-d3 though this is a bit of a plug for a supplement.  Increasing calcium by using, for example, limestone flour in the feed rather than oyster shell available adlib can help.   I wouldn’t use this long term (more than 2weeks continuous) as excess calcium is also not good for their health either.  Sources of Vit D3 are sunshine, cod liver oil (don’t overdo), oily fish such as tuna (in brine).

3   Check for signs of an illness,  Wheezy, rattly breathing, sneezing, snick, discharge from eyes or nose, bubbly eyes, general depression tail or wings down and inactive behaviour or lack of alertness.  Infectious Bronchitis (IB) is a disease which often affects older birds and causes thin and misshapen eggs with ridges and wrinkles and is not treatable though a/bs can control secondary infections.  Breathing or “cold” type symptoms will need an antibiotic prescription from a vet (Tylan or Baytril are effective against a broad range of upper respiratory infections).  

Using an electrolyte drink made as follows can help in cases of IB and provides added sodium in case of a salt deficiency.

Add to 3 litres of water,
I teaspoon (5ml) salt substitute (potassium chlorite)
1.5 teaspoosn (7.5ml) baking soda (bicarbonate of soda)
3 teaspoons (15ml) common salt

Put out 0.4 litres a day (for two hens) saving rest in the fridge and use exclusively as a drink for 7 days only.

4   Check for parasites.  If you have never or infrequently wormed then get some Flubenvet, which is safe and very effective against most types of worm  (ignore Verm X or other “natural” herbal wormers which don’t work).  Flubenvet is  available on the web and has no egg withdrawal requirement.  Fleas, lice and Northern Fowl mite can be treated with Frontline or Ivermectin 0.8% spot on.  Red Mite a common summer visitor which infests houses and feeds on the chx at night.  They can be difficult to eradicate without the use of an insecticide and their control is a major topic in itself.  These are so common in the summer you can pretty much bank on having them unless you take measures to control them.   A major infestation can make the birds anaemic and look in poor condition (ruffled untidy, missing feathers).

5   Falling daylight length, below 14hrs, slows egg production and generally you can expect poor yields and quality issues at this time of year.

6   Many other infections cause egg production drops and thin shells and are too numerous to mention but the above cover the more likely causes.

You will no doubt be advised to try all sorts of quack supplements and old wives remedies like apple cider vinegar in their drink, crushed garlic and Lifeguard (a much plugged poultry tonic).  There’s no evidence that these do any good though you could try adding a multivitamin to their drink, there’s a Pig and Poultry one I use which is available in a sachet which lasts a long time and doesn’t cost much which you can get from farmers stores see attached photo"

Also see
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=65713.msg750649#msg750649

Which was more specifically about Ex batts.
Best of luck
HF
MultiVit.jpg
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 23:02 by hillfooter »
Truth through science.

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joyfull

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 06:12 »
The info is essential if you want good advice so don't worry about waffle.  14 months isn't old but they are ex batts so such problems are only too common.  HF

HF as I read it the original poster said they had got the ex batts 14 months ago (i got 6 exbatts 14mths ago) this would make the hens around 30 months plus old so old age is more than likely the cause.

Therefor they are more than likely coming to the end of their egg laying cycle, however they do need a close eye on them as an egg can break inside and lead to infections. You could try the limestone flour route (a very small pinch onto a grape of piece of sweetcorn for a few days) and always make sure they have dark leafy greens to help them absorb the calcium.
Staffies are softer than you think.

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hillfooter

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 10:58 »
The info is essential if you want good advice so don't worry about waffle.  14 months isn't old but they are ex batts so such problems are only too common.  HF

HF as I read it the original poster said they had got the ex batts 14 months ago (i got 6 exbatts 14mths ago) this would make the hens around 30 months plus old so old age is more than likely the cause.

Therefor they are more than likely coming to the end of their egg laying cycle, however they do need a close eye on them as an egg can break inside and lead to infections. You could try the limestone flour route (a very small pinch onto a grape of piece of sweetcorn for a few days) and always make sure they have dark leafy greens to help them absorb the calcium.


Thanks Joy.  Well then they could be approaching 3 years old so you are right their useful egg production could be ending.  A really healthy chicken which hasn't been subject to past infections or stress can go on way beyond three years but exbatts rarely fit that template.
HF
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 12:38 by hillfooter »

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Heathcliff2

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 12:27 »
Reading this with interest. Any thoughts on the age-span for a free range broiler hen? My Audrey and Brenda came into lay early (about 20 weeks) and laid a bizzare collection of soft shells and mutant double eggs for a while and I was afraid it was their breeding but they now lay smallish but normal eggs. They refuse to go outside and aren't the most agile of creatures (my husband calls them Godzilla and Robocop!) so would they need grit with their layers pellets?

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hillfooter

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 12:34 »
Reading this with interest. Any thoughts on the age-span for a free range broiler hen? My Audrey and Brenda came into lay early (about 20 weeks) and laid a bizzare collection of soft shells and mutant double eggs for a while and I was afraid it was their breeding but they now lay smallish but normal eggs. They refuse to go outside and aren't the most agile of creatures (my husband calls them Godzilla and Robocop!) so would they need grit with their layers pellets?

Yes around 20 weeks if they really are broilers :D
PS I hope you are now feeding them on layer feed. :wub:
HF
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 12:41 by hillfooter »

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joyfull

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 17:39 »
not just grit but oyster shell if they are laying. Are you keeping them as layers I would have though they should be ready for culling now.

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SUTTY1

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Re: soft shells/old age?????
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 20:16 »
Thanks for all the advice. Its put my mind at ease. Have ordered some limestone flower on-line today, cant find it local, and will give this a try.

Will POL's mix in OK withs these OAP'S in the spring or would it be better for them in a seperate cop/run


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