New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?

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victoria_plum

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New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« on: August 27, 2010, 15:40 »
Hi everyone.

We are planning to get the Eglu classic with the run extender in the autumn (not too worried about the dosh for once, as it will be a gift!!)

We have chosen it for many reasons. The main reasons being that we only want hens to range when we are here; we have no suitable place for a permanent site as we have lime trees overhanging the end of the garden which gets pretty black with the dripping stuff; we are very aware of the risk of attracting vermin and therefore want as easy clean an option as possible; in winter we would like the put them over the veg bed, to keep it clear and fertilise it; and for holidays we want to be able to set the run up at my mums!

We are really tempted by Pekin bantams.  Someone has recommended them to us and can't praise them highly enough with children, and as pets.  My sister in law however recommends going for the biggest breeds possible!

Can anyone recommend any other breeds? 

We have three children, one of them a toddler of 2 1/2 so they would need to be pretty calm birds.  Also good layers, if possible, and easy maintenance.

We intend to keep three chooks.  Aned as much as I love the look of the Pekins and the sound of their characters, I want to make sure I get the right breed for our needs and what we can offer the hens.

Any advice hugely appreciated as we want to get it right first time!

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nicky d

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 15:54 »
Hello,  it can be hard picking breeds of chickens as there are so many out there you want all of them.   I dont have any experience with bantams but pekins on the other hand are very prone to going broody which im sure you dont want.   Also remember if its the lovely eggs you want then bantams eggs are alot smaller.   I have 4 ladies all large fowl,  I have a Barnevelder,  Amber star, Speckledy and my new addition a cream legbar.   All 4 lay good sized eggs.   If you want pure egg production you can go for the hybrids which is the mixed breeds, Prue breeds such as the barnevelder might not lay as much but they will lay longer in their life time.   I think you should firstly source a good breeder and go and visit there setups, see wot breeds they have and then you can go from there, look round a couple of setups.   Good luck with your choice of ladies and looking forward to seeing some piccys.   Nickyx
4 girlies,  Nessa, Pamela, Stacey and Tina

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joyfull

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2010, 19:52 »
I agree with Nicky, go around your local breeders to see what they have, and also their set up. Don't buy the first ones you see make sure the breeder keeps their place clean - check the housing and the feeders and drinkers if you can. The eglu is fine for 3 large fowl especially with a run extension  :)
Staffies are softer than you think.

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animartco

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2010, 20:44 »
Why on earth the biggest breeds? For egg size bantam lay proportionately larger for their body weight, so more of the food you give them will go to eggs! Moreover the smaller the breed the more space it has to run around. Pekin are very beautiful, but tend to be scatty brooders. Difficult if you are planning families but otherwise fine. For the best atrractive midsized egg layers- leghorns, and they come in lots of different colours.

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victoria_plum

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 14:09 »
Thanks everyone.

I have found a local breeder, Rooksbridge Poultry Farm, so will go there this afternoon and have a look around.

I'm really excited. It seems people love or hate the Eglu!  I guess it depends on what your situation is, and what you need to be practical.

Are there any breeds which are a definite 'high maintenance' breed that I should not get tempted by?

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Aunt Sally

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2010, 14:12 »
.....  It seems people love or hate the Eglu!  ...

People who have them love them :D

People who have no experience of them irrationally hate them ::)

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joyfull

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2010, 14:14 »
I have one (and 8 wooden coops) and I love it - I use mine as a broody coop. Although at the moment it is down the road at Grannies as a temporary coop for her waifs and strays :).

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8doubles

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2010, 15:20 »
Why on earth the biggest breeds? For egg size bantam lay proportionately larger for their body weight, so more of the food you give them will go to eggs! Moreover the smaller the breed the more space it has to run around. Pekin are very beautiful, but tend to be scatty brooders. Difficult if you are planning families but otherwise fine. For the best atrractive midsized egg layers- leghorns, and they come in lots of different colours.

This is only true when they are actually laying eggs and bantams are not the most prolific egg layers.If you looked at the eggs to food ratio over 12 months i think you would see why bantams are not used for commercial egg production. :D

I think the rule is the prettier the bantam the less eggs they lay and the more they cost. :)
Some of the bantam cocks are stunning.

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GrannieAnnie

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2010, 15:34 »
I always disliked the idea of the eglu, but since borrowing the one from Joy, I have 3 young araucanas in it, and its fine.  Part of the run has the cover on it, so they can stay out in most weathers, although personally i like the chickens to have a bit of room indoors where they can go when the weather is really bad.

But it is very easy to clean out, especially the poo bit! lol

When I retire, I'm going to have just 3 hens in an eglu!    ::) ::)

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victoria_plum

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2010, 17:45 »
I am heartened by the good opinions!!

I think for us it is the only option while the children are small.

I have just followed the advice to find a local breeder and visit.  The first one we went to was Rooksbridge Poultry Farm in hants, they were extremely helpful, although their set up was houses for 300 birds, so not overly comparable!  Nice people though, and from what we could tell the birds looked in extremely good condition.  :D

I then made a phone call to another breeder who is local, and she was much more 'anti' the idea of visiting and asking her advice before the point of purchase.  She said not to read too much, not to research too much, and to get the house and run in place before contacting her to see what was available.  I tried to explain that it was advice that we wanted and were trying to make sure we went into chicken keeping with our eyes open.

I have to say, that although I am sure some people mess breeders around a bit, and therefore they must get annoyed with time-wasters, I was a little put off by the lack of advice and help she offered.  We are, after all, trying to be good chicken keepers!  Doesn't inspire me to call back when we are ready which is a shame.

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joyfull

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2010, 18:22 »
a good breeder should welcome you with open arms, talk you through things show you how they look after them (although bear in mind they are usually not pets to them) and be only too pleased to chat - it is good customer relations after all. Out of the two the first one sounds better to me and hopefully they will have what you want when the time comes.  :)

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victoria_plum

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2010, 21:49 »
Today we found a great breeder, most local one to us to boot!!  We are smitten with her silkies and polands.

But now I am really confused about the housing.

Can anyone give me some arguments or pointers for either wooden coops or eglus.

If we go for the eglu we will have to wait for a few months until we have the money to get it, and would then end up having to wait until next year to get hens from our breeder as she has finished incubating now.

If we went for a wooden one we could get it very soon.

I am worried about not being able to move a wooden one around the garden, and the problems (like smell etc and trashing of the ground) that having it permanenty sited would bring.  As well as not having a good place to put a large one!

Also if anyone knows of any wooden ones which are portable and easily moved around the garden for three silkies?

I'd love some opinions in either direction!

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hillfooter

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2010, 05:56 »
Hi Victoria Plum,

Your original spec was for easy to keep birds and although Silkies and Polands are very attractive looking, Silkies and Polands, inparticular, aren't the ideal first bird to keep as they do require more looking after in the British climate.

Personally I think you should choose between bantams and large fowl first.  The basic choice here is egg size and production.  If you want larger eggs then L/F and then you need to choose hybrids or pure breeds.  If you just want eggs and nice pets hybyrids would be fine and are relatively easy to source and aren't too expensive.  Since hybrids (and first crosses ie first generation crosses between pure breeds) come in all sorts of varieties it depends on what you like the look of.  Personally I wouldn't get too carried away with people's opinions of temperment which are just a projection of the way they are treated in the main.  Some hybrid varieties  do have some dominant characteristics but they will generally react to how you treat them.  Below is a cut and paste of a reply on this topic I wrote a while back.

"If you want lots of eggs and some interesting pets and aren't interested in the social side of chicken keeping choose hybrids.  They lay lots of eggs particularly in their first 2 seasons and make good pets too.  However if you want to keep chx as more of a hobby or want spectacular looking birds, or bantams, or want to breed birds, or engage in the social side of breed clubs, or get into showing etc then choose Pure Breeds.
  
It's like the difference between mongrels and pedegree dogs really.  Most people start with hybrids because they want eggs and hybrids are readily available from garden centres and breeders.   Once they get to know a little more they want to get more into the hobby angle and want specific Pure Breeds.

Hybrids are created at each generation from breeder stock to have specific laying qualities though these days looks and egg colour are also bred for.  However hybrids aren't standardised and don't breed to type and many small breeders have their own specific types which can't be replicated across breeders.  You ONLY get hen birds as cocks are useless being no use for breeding from and no use for the table either so are culled early as soon as sexed.   Pure breeds are standarised and breed true to type.  Both cocks and hens are bred as adult birds.  The type standards are set by the Poultry Club of GB.  Pure breeds can be layers, utility or purely showing breeds.  Utility are useful for laying or the table, layers for eggs like hybrids but not so prolific and usually lay for a few more seasons than hybrids.  Show breeds are purely for fanciers for looks, breeding and showing alone.  Most pure breeds have a bantam version which are useful if space is an issue.  They can be good layers but frequently they are show birds only.  Although I believe there are bantam hybrids I can't personally understand the rationale for these as they will only produce small eggs and are no use for showing or the table.

So there you are in a nutshell.  It's horses for courses and it's what you want them for. There's no best buy option!"

On breed choice if you have chosen a hybrid just go for one you like the look of or otherwise for general friendliness and interest you won't go far wrong with the good old Ranger rather than one of the more esoteric crosses you find today.

For L/F pure breeds easy to keep reasonably good egg layers the ever dependable, though not the most spectacular lookers, Light or Buff Sussex or Rhode Island Red are hard to beat and are friendly.  Wyandottes are lovely looking too though not as prolific.  Cream legbars are widely available and lay blue eggs.  The list is endless but I'd steer clear, if you want an EGLU, of the really large breeds like Orpingtons (everyone's favourites as a looker and a pet though a poor layer), Brahms and Cochins.  I'd also avoid the more ornamentally feathered varieties like Polands and Silkies though Silkies make good pets though are renownd broodies.

A relationship with a good local breeder is worth cultivating and anyone who loves chickens should be keen to talk to you.  The thing about enthusiasts is that the breeds they keep are always the best chx in the world so take their advice with a pinch of salt but seeing the stock in situ and how it is kept should help you choose good healthy birds.  Don't be affraid to ask any question.

EGLU or wooden housing and your method of husbandry are probably the most important choice you will make so don't compromise it by rushing choosing on the basis of bird availability as hopefully you will live with it for many years and a bad mistake now will spoil your enjoyment in the future.  Eglus are very limited in the  number of birds you can keep so be sure you don't want to expand.   This is an addictive hobby and most like to grow their flock to at least 6.  Wooden houses need not be difficult to move and there are many barrow type arks on wheels or with handles for two to carry.  Go for a good make and avoid flatpack petshop or ebay imports.  House design is critical and there are lots to learn and many terrible designs out there made by companies who know nothing about chicken keeping so beware.  The plastic EGLU is a very practical house in terms of ease of maintenance though the run is completely useless,  it's just if you like it's looks or not.  Personally I prefer a traditional wooden house in my environment but an EGLU in a garden setting isn't too out of place.  I've seen some monstrosities of looks and design in recycled plastic in particular one called an ECO house whch was black and quite the most inappropriate design I've seen.  Low on the ground, quirky doors with fancy gimmicky opening and closing levers which couldn't be automated, lego style construction and like the black hole of Calcutta inside pokey and black, just a waste of good landfill in my opinion. :tongue2:  

Choose on what's best for your method of husbandry first, your chickens second and your ease of looking after third all are important not any considerations or personal statements of green principles.  Actually wood from replenishable cultivation is infinitely the best from this perspective in my view.

Read more about good house design and methods of keeping before you decide on the housing then get your birds in the spring and avoid the winter now. :)
HF
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 13:04 by hillfooter »
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joyfull

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 10:22 »
There are other eco houses that will house upto 20 birds (think along the lines of your pig house HF but slightly larger), but I think these are made by a different company to the ones you are looking at. I do agree though put plenty of thought into whichever coop and run you want, buy the best you can afford so hopefully it will last you for years - you don't have to get new - eglus are available 2nd hand on ebay and on the Omlet website for around £200 - £250. They are easy to clean and erradicate any redmite should you be unfortunate to get them.

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victoria_plum

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Re: New to hen keeping - can anyone advise?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 14:41 »
Well, thank you for your advice.  Hillfooter - a huge amount of very useful advice!

We went back to the drawing board and looked at our options with a fresh mind.

On further research, and searching through trusty google, I found a thread on a forum where someone was asking for advice in choosing an eglu or a wooden house.  Some of the people that responded had problems with leaky eglus in wet weather, faulty door mechanisms where they couldn't open the door at all and problems with the size of the run, where they had ended up making their own outer run and discarding the small one.

I felt that for spending £400 you really want to know that you are getting a certain amount of quality and reliability, and I was worried about the problems people had been encountering, as for us the 'easy, care free' element was the attractive feature.

So then I started looking for a wooden house and run which would provide the same maneuverability as the eglu.  I also decided I wanted the best quality for the price, as I don't want to have to replace a house which we are finding to be unsecure or falling apart. The house is a gift and I don't want to have to replace it any time soon!

We have gone for the Flyte so Fancy Hobby Hen House http://www.flytesofancy.co.uk/chickenhouses/Hobby_Hen_House_with_run.html which seems to fulfill the brief and looks extremely attractive to boot!  Given that we will be able to see the house from the sofa I am quite relieved that it looks nice!  I just hope that no-one has had bad experiences with Flyte so Fancy - I could only find good reviews.

We have decided to stick to three silkies, and get to know one breed well while we learn the ropes! I know that Silkies are not necessarily as hardy as some breeds, we went for them for lots of different reasons.  The fact that they can't fly means that as long as the ground level is secure (holes in fences etc) we shouldn't have a problem with too many escapees!  When we went to the breeder the large fowl were in very hot pursuit of the children, especially when there was food around, and the silkies were much more calm and becasue of their smaller size, not as forthright.  I think that the children will find them easier to handle and play alongside.  They also don't seem to trash the garden quite as much as the large hens.  I'm sure they do their bit, but not quite to the  same extent!  Eggs aren't a huge issue for us, we want eggs from the birds of course, but we don't get through a huge amount of eggs, and the smaller size is not an issue.   The fact that we have a local breeder who seems wonderful, with quality birds, is also a plus point.

I'm not worried about having a bit more of a care routine with them than larger breeds, as long as they are easily penned in by a low fence and we can tame them well - children too.

I feel confident in the house and breed, so I hope all our research has been worth it.  Of course now all the researching is over it will soon be time to learn the practical skills!  :ohmy:  But I can't wait!!!  :D  And here's to winter eggs from my three silkies!


Now we need to name them  :blink:

« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 14:50 by victoria_plum »


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