[helen_wow]

Hi everyone, I hope people will share their wisdom with me!

We are making elderflower cordial for the first time, or at least trying to! No recipes say anything about how much stem to leave on. I've seen videos on the tv and internet that show people chucking the whole head in (so the whole umbrella shaped thing, the stub of a green stem, the little stems that branch off like an umbrella, and everything up to the actual flowers). So this is what we've done.

The problem is, the resulting mixture smells like the elder sap - ie like soggy rotten greenery. Should we have only used the actual tiny little white flowers? We are using Hugh FW's River Cottage Cookbook recipe which says to use just-boiled water so is that the problem? My interpretation of just-boiled is just after the kettle has clicked off. Is that wrong?

I've managed to find the tartaric acid (£17.20 for 500g from only place in town that stocks it!) so I really want this to work!

Hope you can help!

Helen

PS if anyone in Grantham area wants to buy some tartaric acid I will sell some of mine!

[jimbeekeeper]

Sorry to say, but you did not really need the tartaric acid.

I dont think you have gone to wrong with the heads, maybe just a little bit less green're might have helped.

Are you sure the flowers where not "off" before you started? Mousie/Urine smell?

[mumofstig]

Don't you usually strip the flowers off...as in this champagen recipe

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=56830.msg695506#msg695506

I know when you buy the dried flowers to use, then it is just the flowers

[Wild Pony]

My Mum used to have us girls forking the flowers off the stems, like you do for blackcurrants. Oh the fun of the '73 blackouts, lololol

[Ice]

Oh yes.  I made the cordial last year and included some of the stems, yuk.  I then read that I ought to have just used the flowers.

[helen_wow]

I dont think you have gone to wrong with the heads, maybe just a little bit less green're might have helped.

So do you think it will work out ok once I add the sugar etc? Or should I start again? It's getting late for the flowers now. They seemed ok to me when I started, but the hot water turned them brown.

Other questions - is the yeast people talk about adding normal 'fast action yeast' rather than winemaking yeast (I added a sprinkle of fast-action yeast, so will that work in my elderflower champagne I'm also working on)?

What do people mean by mousey?

Is it too late to pick some more elderflowers?

Thanks for all the help!

[SG6]

Don't believe tht you should allow any of the stalk into the mixture.
Isn't tartaric acid something from a supermarket used in cooking and so fairly inexpensive?

Do you mean fast acting cooking(bread) yeast?
If so then get some wine making yeast, it isn't expensive and keeps for quite some time.
Bread yeast is really suitable, it is a yeast and will produce alcohol, but it will impart an aroma, may not clear and will not produce alcohol to any great extend. It isn't a wine making yeast.

If elder flowers are still on the trees then no it is not too late to pick some more.

Not sure where you are but have a look round for a homebrew shop and buy a few basics, yeast, nutrient, Campden tablets, stablising powder (potassium sorbate) mainly. Possibly citric acid, tannin. If there is a Wilkinson near they may have a limited range of items, some have more then others.

[helen_wow]

Hi, my research online said that cream of tartar and tartaric acid were not the same thing. Cream of tartar is part neutralised tartaric acid. Allegedly. Hopefully it will keep until 2014 as it states on the label!

Any thoughts on what 'mousey' means?

Thanks all,

H

[jimbeekeeper]

Mousey is just an off smell.

Why are you adding yeast? I thought you are making cordial?

[SG6]

I did notice "cordial" and "yeast" but assumed that it was just the recipe.

Seems the best/easy way to get flowers off of the truss is to pick the truss's, put in a black bag and then give a good shake the next day.

Have to be honest I tend to run a mile from anything marked HFW.

[helen_wow]

Hi all,

Just so I don't seem crazy, I am making cordial AND champagne.

I'm using HFW recipes for both. The cordial one just says to put the flower heads in. I understood 'heads' to be the whole head, not just the flowers. Nobody anywhere says to only use the little heads!

In the champagne recipe it says if after two days there are no signs of fermentation to add a pinch of yeast, but it doesn't say to use winemakers yeast etc.

I'm not clairvoyant so didn't know any of this stuff!!!

Thanks for all your help, I'm gonna have to start over I think.

Helen

[jimbeekeeper]

As to which yeast you should use (if you want to use it), the clue is in the title! "Elderflower champagne ", so champagne  yeast, or cider yeast.

You need a yeast the can survive the potential higher acohol content.

[1st time veg grower]

Helen, I asked almost the same question regarding the yeast in the other elderflower champagne thread, so don't worry! And, mine didn't start fermenting until about day 4 - I didn't have time to go out and get yeast to help it along when it wasn't doing anything but when I checked it had started by itself in the meantime anyway! So if you do make another batch I'd give it a little extra time before worrying about yeast. Had my first couple of glasses last night and it was lovely!

[Kate and her Ducks]

I have always used a recipe for both cordial and champagne that does not require the flowers to be removed from the stalks and have never had a problem, always been yummy. Very glad too as the one recipe I used for wine specified removing all the stalk and that was a complete pain in the bum! 

[Frothgar]

When making any kind of wine - use a wine yeast (baker's yeast is for bread)... but, really, why make elderflower cordial, wine or champagne (you're not supposed to call it that!) when you can wait till the end of summer and make elderberry wine.... so much better (or is that just me?).