[hillfooter]

Joyfull is partly right here.

The datasheets to refer to are available on the NOAH site for both 2.5% & 10%

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Bayer_plc/Baytril_10_ACU-_Oral_Solution/-23507.html

2.5% is for calves and exotics whereas 10% is for poultry (actually meat birds).  I'd try for this if possible.   There's therefore no recommended withdrawal for eggs.  Though it's 8 days for meat.

HF

Below is the information from the NOAH (National Office of Animal Health) website for Baytril 10% oral for your further information,

"Uses
Enrofloxacin is a synthetic, broad spectrum antimicrobial substance, belonging to the fluoroquinolone group of antibiotics. It is bactericidal in action by a concentration - dependant activity against many gram positive and gram negative bacteria as well as mycoplasmas.
It is indicated for use in turkeys, broiler chickens, broiler breeders and pullets being reared as layers for treatment of diseases of the respiratory and alimentary tracts of bacterial or mycoplasmal origin (e.g. pasteurellosis, mycoplasmosis, coli-bacillosis, coli-septicaemia and salmonellosis), where clinical experience, supported where possible by sensitivity testing of the causal organism, indicates enrofloxacin as the drug of choice. "

I've highlighted the bit about pullets being reared as layers.  I take this to indicate that it has not been tested on chickens in lay and particularly their eggs for residues of the antibiotic.  I don't suppose there's anything sinister here other than economics. Commercial egg producers don't normally treat their chickens for respiratory disease (or anyother disease which requires a production egg withdrawal).  More likely CRD is controlled by vaccination or preventative medication for which there's no withdrawal period.  Therefore commercially it's probably of no value to licence this for the treatment of layers.  Broilers are more valuable birds however and treatment doesn't cost production.

HF

[Aunt Sally]

What type of pellets are they fed on Maccbean ?

Hens that freerange on a garden can spend all their time looking for food and not finding enough of the right things to keep them healthy.  How much of their pellets do they get through ?

[Maccbean]

I think I covered what they were eating.  I kept them in their run until 12pm each day for a couple of months and it made no difference really.  They ate the same amount of food that they always have.  They are currently on Smallholders Layers Mash, which I changed to a few weeks ago from Heritage layers pellets.

[Aunt Sally]

I think I covered what they were eating. 

Sorry I must have missed that.


Have you searched the garden to make sure they are not laying away ?

[Maccbean]

I'm sure they're not laying in the garden, it's not that big (unfortunately!).  Just a bit more history on the girls:

1. Legbar 1 - Laid 5-6 normal eggs a week for about 7 months -  thin shelled eggs from May 2009
2. Legbar 2 - laid thin shelled eggs for about the same time until she had an impacted crop which I removed in October 2009 when she stopped laying completely
3. Red rocket - laid normal eggs daily up until a month ago, then stopped laying
4. Snow white - laid normal eggs up until two-three months ago, laying thin shelled eggs since (which she scoffs)
5. Sussex comet - laid normal eggs daily until last two months when she reduced to 2-3 times a week sometimes less - shells aren't normal thickness but not as thin as the others either.  The thin shell egg eater doesn't seem to eat these, as we always find them intact.

I've contacted the vets again about the Baytril.  Hoping to get the 10% oral (thanks Hillfooter).

[Sassy]

Only a thought but I wonder if some sort of chemical has been used either on your land or close to it that may have affected your chooks?

[Maccbean]

We are really careful with what we use in the garden.  The only thing I have thought of over the weekend is that there is part of an old railway sleeper that we used to make a pond that sits adjacent to their run.  Maybe this could have contributed?  I don't know.

[Maccbean]

I've just had a bit of an Epiphany!  I remember that we had a problem last year with the hens pecking at our back doors.  They pecked all the paint off and created big holes in the wooden doors.  Even when we filled the holes and repainted it they carried on for a few months.  They stopped pecking at it about 4-5 months ago.  I wonder if that is it?  I'm not sure what the paint was, eggshell I think.  Could that be it?

[hillfooter]

We are really careful with what we use in the garden.  The only thing I have thought of over the weekend is that there is part of an old railway sleeper that we used to make a pond that sits adjacent to their run.  Maybe this could have contributed?  I don't know.

Re old railway sleeper.  These are usually impegnated with creosote which could well be leaching into the pond.  I expect the cx drink from this if they have access.  Two possibilities this could be connected.

1   If the pond is small it could be contaminated with creosote which isn't good
2   If you have water fowl on or visiting the pond they carry the Egg Drop Syndrome virus

You could try keeping them away from the pond or cleaning it out if small and sanitsing it.  Even if this is related it's not sure to give a cure since in case 2 there's no treatment for this virus and in case 1 the damage, if any, may be chronic.  Obviously you have a better knowledge of the situation on the ground so you will have to judge the likelihood of this.

One other thought as you are about during the day.  Eggs need to spend a certain time in the uterus to be coated with the shell.  You don't regularly drop dowm with titbits do you as this may disturb their laying.  Keep titbit visits to the evening if possible.  

Also calcium supplements are best given in the afternoon/ early evening when they have all night to be absorbed before laying starts.  This effect has been noted in broiler breeder research though I doubt it's central here.

[Maccbean]

The pond is v. small, 2ft x 2ft, and the chicken's haven't been able to access it since Feb (it's on my veggie plot side of the fence).  TBH they never paid any attention to it before either, I've never seen one drinking from it.  Also, I have never seen water fowl in our garden (except six years ago when the pond was humungeous and a heron visited to nick the fish that were in it then).  We do however have lots of frogs?

I have never been a big one for giving titbits, maybe a handful of corn or a few mealy worms to get them into the run of an evening, but not really more than that.  The limestone flour is in their food and the liquid calcium is in their water, so they are taking it in all day.

I'm off to the vets now to pick up the Baytril.  It is 2.5% oral (that's all they have).  So will start them on that today in the remotist hope that it might help.

[hillfooter]

I've just had a bit of an Epiphany!  I remember that we had a problem last year with the hens pecking at our back doors.  They pecked all the paint off and created big holes in the wooden doors.  Even when we filled the holes and repainted it they carried on for a few months.  They stopped pecking at it about 4-5 months ago.  I wonder if that is it?  I'm not sure what the paint was, eggshell I think.  Could that be it?

   :lol:

Well they obviously think your back door is where they place their takeaway order.  This phenomena is known as the pecking order!

If all else fails you could try a political solution.  Get them to sign a social contract that they will attend an egg laying course in exchange for the continuation of their welfare, free housing and regular meals.  Job done!

HF

[Maccbean]

Now what a good idea, chicken contracts, why didn't I think of it before!!!

I've had another thought of the cause.  I'll of had the girls two years next month, and in that time, only the two legbars have moulted, which was last November.  Is that unusual? 

I started a five day course of the Baytril yesterday, my last resort!

[joyfull]

yes perfectly normal, the others would have had partial moults so it wouldn't have been obvious 

[hillfooter]

Now what a good idea, chicken contracts, why didn't I think of it before!!!

I've had another thought of the cause.  I'll of had the girls two years next month, and in that time, only the two legbars have moulted, which was last November.  Is that unusual? 

I started a five day course of the Baytril yesterday, my last resort!

This is very interesting because my next tack if the a/b doesn't work would be a forced moult.  This is an old poultry keepers ploy to get them through the moult quickly and renew their laying cycle.  It's a bit like rebooting your pc.  I didn't mention this because it's not be be done lightly.  I've never done it but I don't keep hybrids.  It involves food depravation so is stressful and not without risk.  You'd need to find out how best to do it if you wanted to try this.

Joy is right in that it's extremely unlikely that they haven't renewed their feathers gradually but it just could be they need a more severe moult to retrigger their laying.  One issue with hybrids is that they are bred for a first long laying cycle so they yeild as long and as heavily as possible in their first season.  They don't see a second season usually in a commercial situation so who knows what might happen if you keep them longterm.

HF

[Aunt Sally]

My two hyprid girls are 3 and 5 years old and are still laying 4 or 5 eggs each per week.  The do take a couple of months off when they moult though.